Kirsty's more resilient than she thinks

Crisis does not always look like eviction notices and cardboard boxes. Sometimes it is a mental health crash, a five-week wait for Universal Credit, and the quiet panic of watching food prices climb while your teenager needs more than a swing in the park to feel like life is normal.

We’re joined by Kirsty from Manchester, a single mum who works part-time in crisis support and has managed long-term mental health challenges for most of her life. She shares what happened when she took on too much, lost her job, and suddenly had to navigate the benefits system while unwell. We talk about the culture she experienced at DWP, why support can feel hardest to access at the exact moment you have the least energy, and what a more human system could look like, including her idea of aligning decisions more closely with healthcare realities.

Kirsty also brings the day-to-day detail that rarely makes headlines: writing a priority shopping list, counting every pound as you move through the supermarket, and the sting of asking for items to be taken off at the checkout. We dig into the cost of living crisis, inflation, fuel shocks, and why “working families” can still need an affordable food scheme. Along the way we explore how surplus food and mobile food clubs can cut food waste, reduce food insecurity, and build community that lasts far beyond a bag of groceries.

If you care about food poverty, mental health, Universal Credit, and practical community support, listen now then subscribe, share the podcast with a mate, and leave us a review so more people can find it.

Transcript

Welcome To The Bread And Butter Thing

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Hello and welcome back to a slice of bread and butter with me, Vic, and Mum. We're from the Bread and Butter Thing.

SPEAKER_02 0:17

We run a network of mobile food clubs that take surplus food from supermarkets, farms and factories. We take it straight into communities where families are struggling to get by.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Yeah, for less than a tenner, our members get bags packed with fruit, veg, fridge food, cupboard staples. It's a weekly shop that helps stretch the budget and takes some of the pressure off.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

Our members are at the heart of everything we do. They turn food into friendship and neighbours into community, and that's what makes us tick.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Yeah, and today we're going to hear from Kirsty from Manchester.

Crisis Hits And Universal Credit Fails

SPEAKER_01 0:58

I'm a single mum of a teenage daughter, and I've got long-term mental health problems that I've been managing for most of my life. So yeah. You're working? Yeah, I work part-time for a local charity managing crisis support, formerly household support fund, crisis resilience fund now. So every day I meet people who are struggling. Food poverty is the main link. A lot of the people and the families we meet from food bank, people in desperate need for food, what's going on for them? Are there debts? Are they poorly? We work with the local community nurse currently, long may it continue. There's a question mark over funding. So we're looking at health issues, we're looking at financial difficulties, we're working with employment agencies to try and get people back into employment, you know, the whole range. So how did you get involved with bread and butter? Um my timeline seven or so years ago, as I say, I'm managing mental health problems. I took on too much work-wise as a single mum. I had a mental health crisis, uh, life went topsy turvy, I lost my job, um, I ended up on basic universal credit, which I would say is really not enough to survive on. I know they've upgraded it a little bit, a few pounds, but to try and survive, especially when you've been on a salary and you've got all the bills and things saying. I was gonna say what what happens? I was in mental health crisis. I didn't even think to do all the necessary things straight away. I was already in financial crisis, and then you've got the five-week wait. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

What do you think are the kind of necessary things? Looking back now, what would you have done different?

SPEAKER_01 2:43

I mean, I was crying for help for mental health services before I lost my job and I was battered and told no and I didn't meet the threshold, and then I lost the job. So that was a battle first.

SPEAKER_02 2:53

It is odd how it's always you've got a hit crisis before people uh pay you attention, even though you're signposting saying, I'm going down, I'm going down.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Um the thresholds are quite high as well because it was the community mental health team and um trying to get them their support. My GP hat off to them, they fought my corner, and a neighbour told me about the bread and butter thing and took me along. From the off, I thought it was amazing. You know, fresh food, fresh meat, fresh fruit and veg. It was less than£8.50 at that point. It took the edge off food insecurity. Look at your shopping bill now with the cost of living crisis and things like that. You know, I used to come out with bags and bags in Aldi, you're getting less and less, and watch the prices. I often go round counting because I'm on a budget. I can see the prices, they've massively shot up. You're keeping the bill in your head so that when you know you're going off. I don't necessarily go round and order, I have a list and I have order a priority, and you might sort of knock a few things off.

SPEAKER_02 3:56

Right, so you don't just shop down your natural hours, you go, right, this is my priority. I need these things, so I get these.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

It depends what time, you know, different times a month, but definitely I I will, you know, toilet roll, top of the list, you know, and then you've got your get your meals, and I've even been at a checkout at so many times, much to my daughter's embarrassment, saying, Take that off, take that off. Bread and butter was a a lifesaver for me at that time for food insecurity and things, and um after a while, when I was feeling a bit better, the charity that facilitates bread and butter thing in the area I'm in was asking for volunteers. I was amazed at the project and it's managing food waste as well, which makes it even more you know, it's not like food bank, which is charitable brilliant as it is, it's that food is destined for landfill, which is a is a crime of our society these days, I think. And then you're targeting people in areas it's easy to access bread and butter, which is um it's apart from Christmas Days, 52 weeks a year.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

But we do we do still go Christmas week, we just changed the date.

Why DWP Feels Like A Fight

SPEAKER_01 5:05

No, I know yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, okay, yeah, so 52 weeks a year, you know, it's massive. So I started volunteering, which I really enjoyed. I got more involved with the charity. To be honest, the universal credit I had massive problems with, and I started doing people were trying to migrating from legacy benefits, and I started trying to signpost people about that because I found it really hard. I would add the DWP. Why can't they assist genuine people with their service? I got sent round the houses, I got battered from pillar to post. Uh bearing in mind, I'm quite I'm struggling anyway. I don't see why you have to go to struggling things like systems advice and those sorts of agencies. And people have said to me, maybe they need training and those sorts of things. I don't I think it's the the culture. The culture is set up to not assist people and hold the pair of strings as much as possible. And part of my job now is to help people, genuine people, who are really struggling to potentially navigate that system. The system is I think it should be more fluid in line with the NHS position. If you're poorly inhale, disabled, whatever, they should be the people deciding on these things. Maybe when you're feeling better, if it wasn't such a battle to get that support, you'd be more inclined to go and dip your toe into work and test that test all of these things.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

You've kind of seen it both sides then, haven't you? So what do you think DWP could should do?

SPEAKER_01 6:40

I think there needs to be an absolute categorical change of culture in the attitude towards their clients. I'm gonna say, what you what it what is it about the way they approach people? I think there's a lot of injustice, there's a lot of unfairness in society. I think the lower rungs have got it stacked against them. Some of the attitudes in the press are uh horrendous, you know. The people I see are I feel are very genuine cases and they've got it stacked up against them massively.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

So uh and it's why we do this. Actually, most people are not taking the Mickey, most people are actually just trying to get by, yeah. And it it's just sad that so many people think that it's the other way around. And I I'm with you, the barriers and the cynicism of the benefits agencies, it's their own way around, you know. If they were more receptive and more welcoming, etc., you maybe wouldn't need as much help from people like yourself or citizens and voices.

Teenagers Know When Money Runs Out

SPEAKER_01 7:35

Yeah, I understand the the benefit bill, there's a lot of concern about that, but if you made it more fluid um and less of a battle, I think people have come back out from that if if possible. I mean, you've got to change employers' attitudes towards making reasonable adjustments, or I think there just needs to be a change in culture and a much more fluid, welcoming system. So you're working part-time, are are things getting back to where they were? Um, I would still say I struggle. My daughter's still on free school meals and it's still a juggling act at the end of the month, and those sorts of things I need to keep my head on financially. Yeah, and now I'm thinking about the energy prices are gonna go through the roof. I think we need to get the message out there, particularly for bread and butter, because for me I went to bread and butter in crisis, but now I'm working part-time and it's accessible. There's a lot of low-income families who are working, you wouldn't necessarily think that they fit the bill for something like bread and butter, but they do. If you break down the stigma, people's attitudes to come into a project like this to help make ends meet. What used to be in your life that isn't what could you afford that you can't? I have to say no to my daughter a lot. Yeah. You know, I want to do this, I want to go here, I want to do that, and gone are the day where you just go to the park and go on a swing, she's a teenager, and there's a lot of demands there. Also, you need to get creative with your meal budgeting, with your shopping budgeting, and it's definitely money in, money out when money comes in, bills all your energy. Summer holidays is a it's seven weeks, it's a lot of time to fill. I'm trying to work, she's too old for childcare, she doesn't want you know, and there's an element of what do I do here? So I do invest quite a lot into the holidays. Unfortunately, I'm gonna lean on family for those sorts of things.

SPEAKER_02 9:36

One of the things that we find is a lot of people try and shield the kids from it. Yeah, definitely. Yes, so how aware do you think she is of your situation?

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Um everything really. Um she knows when I haven't got it, she can't have it. I think she's quite mature because of that, and I think it's quite, you know, she's gonna be a good one.

SPEAKER_02 9:57

I was gonna say, do you do you think the circumstances make the kids grow up?

SPEAKER_01 10:02

Yeah. Yeah, but I don't think that's a bad thing.

unknown 10:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

She knows I've got mental health problems, she knows I've lost my job, she knows I you know, she knows I go to bread and butter, I don't hide. Yeah. And and and you that and that's just natural to her now, because they have I've gone for years and she she's But she's tuned in, right? She knows. Yeah. She's not got negative attitudes about it. She's she's quite a grown up, mature girl, very proud of her, you know.

SPEAKER_02 10:27

Tell me about what you think is next for you then.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

I really enjoy the job I do. I think I care about it, it motivates me, even on a bad day, because it's important. If someone's in dying of food, sitting without the electricity on, uh losing their freezer contents, that's massive. You know, even if I'm having a bad day, I'm gonna move for that, and it keeps me going. Same as my daughter keeps me going, she's the best thing that ever happened to me. Next stages, I don't know. I'd tread carefully because I've done it before, I took on too much. That was also a job I I enjoyed, and I crashed in bed, and I want to avoid that, particularly while I've got my daughter, I know she's a teenager now, she's my parents who number one, so I tread carefully about taking on too much.

SPEAKER_02 11:21

I'm gonna start about Kirsty and say what a true and what a sensible person. I think it's another demonstration of how incredible our members are at times about dealing with stuff that most people don't. The mental health pressure's on her, and she's just managed to get herself a plan, get back on the right track, and easy does it, but slow and steady.

SPEAKER_00 11:43

Yeah. I met Kirsty the other day.

SPEAKER_02 11:45

Oh yeah?

SPEAKER_00 11:46

Yeah. She came into our warehouse to have a chat to some of our partners from Sedexo. They support us in a whole wide range of different things that they do, and they were coming to have some meetings and just get to know us a little bit more. So we thought it'd be nice for them to meet a couple of members. Kirsty and another member from a different hub came in and it was really funny because they were like firm friends within a second, even though they'd never met each other before. Just like the well, we both shop at bread and butter, so we know what it's like.

SPEAKER_02 12:15

Yeah, nice. It was lovely. Is Kirsty part of the Living Library then? Yeah. Do you want to explain what Living Library is?

SPEAKER_00 12:20

Yeah, so the Living Library, I really struggle with this phrase, which is why I always shy away from using it.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

Um Working title, should we say?

SPEAKER_00 12:28

Working title, yeah. We need a more bread and butter title for it. Um, essentially, they are brilliant members. They're happy to share their stories with people like funders or MPs or people that can change the landscape for people. So we've worked with them for a while to help them hone the stories and so that they kind of feel confident in talking about themselves. And then we invite them to support us on things where we need to meet posh people. They can represent better than you or I can, quite frankly.

SPEAKER_02 12:57

I want to talk about one of Kirstie's experiences, shall we say, with the benefits agency and DWP is not left to feeling supported. I wondered for that wonderful balance that we do try and bring. I wondered whether I could give you a bit of homework and see if you knew anybody that would be brave and bold enough in that benefits world that would come on and talk to us.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

Okay. I will take that. I will see what I can do.

SPEAKER_02 13:23

Because I'm sure that the pressure's enormous.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

But the challenges, well, is that enough excuse?

SPEAKER_00 13:30

Yeah. Okay. Let me see what I can do. Not promising, but yeah. I thought Kirsty said a really interesting thing. She said that her mental health was in a really low place and she was struggling with everything. And I can't quite remember the words that she used, but it's like, and on top of that, you know, we've got to then do all of these things and go to the citizens' advice and do this to do that to access the support. Yeah. And kind of at the time where I most need the support to be as easy as possible, it's actually probably the hardest it is to get the support.

SPEAKER_02 14:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

And that feels fundamentally wrong, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02 14:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

Let's have open doors to support rather than barriers up because Kirsty clearly didn't have the resilience or the energy or the headspace or whatever it might have been to cope with that at the time. So then you miss out on the support that actually would stop you maybe from getting worse or at least help stabilize you.

SPEAKER_02 14:29

Well, Kirsty at one point said that she came to Bread and Butter in crisis, didn't she? And I wonder what that definition of crisis was because I think a lot of it will be around her mental health and the fact that she was having to rediscover everything and go to these places and get pushed from pillar to post and have the wrong attitude in the support services that are there, etc., because everybody's beaten down or whatever. She was in mental health crisis as opposed to financial crisis, which so many people think about immediately when we say people in crisis or on the cusp of crisis, it's typically I'm about to lose my house, I'm about to become homeless, or something like that. Whereas it it's widening that definition of crisis in my head, certainly. And I'm sure there's a lot of members that feel that way as well.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

Yeah, I was chatting to some civil servants not long ago and saying crisis is a flat tire or winter coats for the kids. They were shocked that that would tip someone into crisis.

SPEAKER_02 15:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

But for our members, that is exactly what it is.

SPEAKER_02 15:35

I'm not surprised but disturbed that they were shocked by that. They should be closer to it.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

However, this is the challenge of being stuck in London.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

And working in Westminster is, you know, it's its own little place, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 15:51

You're trying not to say bubble, aren't you? You you're trying to avoid the Westminster bubble now. I think we can agree on that one, surely, Vic, that Westminster bubble is a bubble.

Inflation Fuel Costs And Policy Choices

SPEAKER_00 16:01

Yeah, so I mean it was useful because they were out at a hub and they were seeing like reality for members firsthand. You know, it really it was a light bulb moment. That was one good thing that we did to bring some people out of the bubble to get them to see what life's really like. Actually, if they take any of that back and it influences what they do, then we've done a little bit of good.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

Agreed.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

So Kirsty, this is we come around to this a lot. Do you tell your kids? Do you not tell your kids?

SPEAKER_02 16:29

Yeah. It wasn't clear whether she'd tell her daughter, but a daughter was clearly tuned in.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

Yeah, and I think by the time you get into kind of high school age, you're gonna be, aren't you? Like there's no hiding it. So you may as well just be like, this is the situation. So I think for me it's more the little ones when you just want them to run around in the park and have a laugh, don't you? And not be kind of worrying about putting biscuits in a shopping trolley.

SPEAKER_02 16:54

Imagine it though, if you had a teenage daughter and you're going to the supermarket, the embarrassment that can amplify and resonate through a teenager when they're having to put stuff back at the checkout.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:06

I felt I felt the pain with that.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

Yeah, agreed. And we talk about shopping habits off and on. And I had never really thought about going to like aisle number 17 to get the priority item, then back to number four. So almost you've got rather than you write in your shopping list in the order of the shop, like how the supermarket's laid out, which is what I would do.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

Which is what the retailer wants you to do, Vic.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

Okay, well, I'm glad I'm keeping the retailers happy. You're writing it in terms of priority items and zigzagging backwards and forwards across the store. Yeah. That was quite interesting. Because I wonder how many of our members have a priority shopping list.

SPEAKER_02 17:47

More than most, I would say.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

Yeah, and um, there was people yesterday in government saying about food prices and how they're going to rise again and how they've already risen 40% since COVID. And I wonder how many of our members right now are going in and not knowing how much their shop is. Because let's face it, lots of our members have a really tight diet and they'll get a bread and butter, and that had really helps with diversifying what they're eating. But they might go to the supermarket for the same staples over and over because they know that's what it's gonna cost.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

I wonder how often or what the feeling is like I don't know how much the shop that used to cost me 20 quid is now gonna cost. Is it gonna be 23 quid this week?

SPEAKER_02 18:29

So we're we're talking on a very relevant day about this because this morning we've woken up to inflation going up. So it's up to 3.3% today, and nobody's tracking food price inflation yet. And you watch. So basically, what's happened, Vic? Seven, eight weeks in, all the tankers that were coming through the Straits of Hamoors that did get through have landed, so nothing else is coming through. So the next couple of weeks is when everything's gonna bite, when everybody's gonna be short of fuel and the petrol prices, etc., are going to go up and the fertilizers aren't gonna land, etc. From the end of April, this is when it's gonna kick in. And no matter what is dealt with immediately, there's gonna be a short-term spike. And everyone goes, Oh, well, it's short-term. Well, no, it's not because inflation goes up, and then you don't hear of deflation, you don't hear, oh, well, it's fixed, so everyone all the prices are going down again. You just hear that inflation goes down.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

So at the minute, if you've got a petrol car, it's costing you something like 20 quid more to fill it up, and if you've got diesel, it's something like 30 quid more to fill it up based on like a couple of weeks ago. Yeah. If we think about 25% of our members, even shopping at bread and butter, cannot afford an unexpected expense of 20 quid.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

Well, guess what? That's what they've just got.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

So that's just one fill-up.

SPEAKER_02 19:48

Yeah, this is gonna hit hard again. And I think someone's gonna have to step in and look at this properly from government to put some funding towards it and means test it. I don't want the chemi bay to knock version of just take duty off fuel prices because that benefits us all, and some of us can take the strain.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

Yeah. Although means tested shopping, I mean, that's like a whole new world.

SPEAKER_02 20:13

Yeah, it is. I'm not there. I'm with you because I'm feeling the pain of Kirsty and everything that she goes through to actually prove that she's in enough of a bad state to actually be able to get means tested shopping. Can you imagine the commotion of that? No, you're not poor enough, go away.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

Oh my god, it would be awful. It would really change like a commercial relationship as well.

SPEAKER_02 20:35

It would. However, one of the genius points that she made that we haven't touched on is when she was talking about the culture of DWP, etc., when she said it should be aligned with the NHS because if you've got a medical record there and they know you've got mental health issues, etc., they should be able to deal with you in a different way. So I have on record ranted about the atrocious administration of healthy start vouchers that are run by the NHS. However, if they took on all of the benefits, maybe they'd be forced to improve.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

Wow, okay. I mean, I think getting the low income scheme sorted would be uh would be a win, but yeah. Yeah, I think, you know, just wrapping up on Kirsty, you know, what's brilliant is she became a member of Bread and Butter. She then started to volunteer, she now works in the partner organization that we work out of too, works for them. And now she's like the expert in the support and where you can go. And it was brilliant because when she came in and she was chatting to the other member, and like I said, they'd never met each other before. The other member was talking about their situation and they weren't in work and they were thinking about volunteering and this. And Kirsty was just full of advice, really supportive, and it was quite interesting because some of it was relevant, although they live in different local authority areas, so stuff that was at a greater Manchester level were. And then there was some bits like, oh well, I live in this local authority area, you might not be able to get this. And like two things. One, Casey's now able to navigate all of that support that at one point she couldn't, and he's really willing to kind of share that knowledge with people. But then even that's got boundaries based on local authority boundaries. But yeah, it was lovely to watch them just be like, You could do this, you could do that. Yeah, our members are dead supportive, aren't they?

SPEAKER_02 22:28

I love that. That's brilliant. Isn't it a shame that there's no consistency? Yeah. You notice I'm trying my best to avoid postcode lottery right now.

How To Join And Contact Us

SPEAKER_00 22:35

It's fine, you can say it. I've I've I'm over it. So if you'd like to know more about the bread and butter thing and what we get up to, you can find us on Team TBBT, on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, LinkedIn, or online at breadandbutterthing.org.

SPEAKER_02 22:58

And if you have any feedback or thoughts on the podcast, or you'd like to come and have an at it, or just simply be a guest. You know, certain podcasts even have audiences, Vic. We could have an audience. We could people could watch us record this and see how stupid we are. So drop us a an email at podcastbreadandbutterthing.org.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

Great. I'm sure some of the guys on the warehouse floor would be loving, like, oh, we'll uh come and watch and two make fools of yourself. Lastly, well not lastly, just we are always open to new members at all of our hubs. If you or someone you know would benefit from our affordable food scheme, you can find your nearest hub on the Become a Member page of the website.

SPEAKER_02 23:34

And please do all those things that podcast asks you to do. Like us, subscribe to us, leave us a review and share us with you mates, and chat about us on social. We'll see you next time. See you next time.