A Slice of Bread and Butter
The voice of The Bread and Butter Thing - with stories from the frontline of the cost of living crisis from one of the UK's leading food charities.
A Slice of Bread and Butter
Money Help, Without The Judgement
Money worries don’t pause for the holidays, and neither do we. We sit down with Matthew Sheeran from Money Wellness to explore how the debt landscape has shifted from credit cards to priority bills like rent, council tax and energy, and why buy now pay later has quietly become a mainstream risk for everyday essentials. Matthew shares what actually happens when you reach out for free money and debt advice, how his team blends online and phone support seven days a week, and why a friendly face in local hubs helps people take that first step without fear or judgement.
Across a candid conversation, we get practical about survival strategies that respect dignity and joy: simple budgeting that prevents over‑commitment, smarter shopping that spreads costs without spiralling, and small savings that add up when December strains the purse. We talk openly about the spike in help‑seeking every January, the quiet of December when families try to protect the moment, and the real‑world impact of delayed decisions. Matthew unpacks the difference between priority and non‑priority debts, the grants and write‑offs many households miss, and how early conversations often unlock solutions long before enforcement looms.
We also challenge the system: why essentials cost more, why Buy Now Pay Later (BNPL) defaults are too easy to click, and why regulation needs to catch up with how people actually live. Through it all, the message stays human and hopeful—help isn’t a verdict, it’s a map. If your outgoings are creeping ahead of your income, don’t wait for a crisis. Reach Money Wellness at moneywellness.com, explore our affordable food hubs, and take one small step today that makes next month easier. If this conversation helped, follow the show, leave a review, and share it with someone who needs a nudge toward support.
Hello and welcome back to a slice of bread and butter with me, Mark, and Vic. We're from the bread and butter thing.
SPEAKER_02:We run a network of mobile food clubs that take surplus food from supermarkets, farms and factories. We take it straight into communities where families are struggling to get by.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and for less than a 10 hour members get bags packed with fruit, veg, fridge food, and cupboard staples. It's a weekly shop that helps stretch the budget and take some of the pressure off.
SPEAKER_02:Our members are at the heart of everything we do. They turn food into friendship and neighbours into community. And that's what makes us tick.
SPEAKER_01:Yep, couldn't agree more. And today we're talking to one of our service providers. It's Matt from Money Wellness.
SPEAKER_00:I'm Matthew Sheeran. I'm the collaboration partner at Money Wellness. So our organization, we're a free provider of money and debt advice, and we support around about a thousand people a day that are struggling financially. So, you know, it's a lot of people that need that really important support with debt solutions. So what we do quite simply is it it ranges from that holistic support on is there additional benefits that someone might be entitled to? How do you manage a budget? What have you got coming in and coming out, all the way through to your formal debt solutions? So helping people with things like debt management plans, debt write-off options.
SPEAKER_01:You've been working quite a bit with bread and butter on this as well. So, what does that look like for our members?
SPEAKER_00:So, my role when I'm there really is just to try and raise awareness. I think you've got you know lots of people that are really open and they want to talk about the money and and the reasons why they're they're at the hubs, and but you've also got people that sometimes maybe are a little bit more reserved, as with any any way of life. So I just want to be a presence there so that people know that they can speak to me if they know someone that's struggling or if that's themselves. But yeah, I just want to kind of be part of that community and part of that hub so people remember us, and then whether it's today in the moment or in a year's time, if they are struggling, they know that their advice is a thing, they know that they can turn to someone and that they can get that help that they need. That's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_01:So you're doing face-to-face, having a chat with people. This is what our communities love and miss really.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you can see the personal touch make a difference. I wish there was 10 of me because it means I could go to 10 different hubs every week. Every time I go, people kind of free up a little bit, become a little bit more comfortable having those conversations, and ultimately that's what you you need sometimes for people to get that help.
SPEAKER_01:I'm guessing you're not doing the advice there and then, you're sending them down a process then. So, what does that look like, Matt?
SPEAKER_00:That's correct. So it wouldn't be providing debt advice there and then, it would just be giving them the information that they need to know where to turn when that advice is needed. So we provide a service over the phone, which is seven days a week, and we also have an online journey as well. Customers can kind of jump from one to the other as and when it's needed without losing any of the progress. So if it is that someone's maybe not quite comfortable speaking on the phone, they can start that online and then they can switch over to speak to someone if they ever feel like that's needed.
SPEAKER_01:What are the common trends for the people that are approaching you, the types of issues they're getting themselves into?
SPEAKER_00:Things have changed. I think, especially, you know, if you were kind of to look at you know, this time five years ago, we would see far more customers coming to us that were maybe overindebted, they've you know taken out credit that they thought was affordable, but it turned out it wasn't, and they were just coming with you your typical credit card loans, catalogues, debts like that. Whereas now you've kind of got more customers that work in families, you know, people that are just struggling with priority bills. So it might even be that they don't have any non-priority debts, they just fell behind on the council tax, the rent, the gas and electric.
SPEAKER_01:What's a non-priority debt, Matt?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so a non-priority debt is it's things like credit cards, loans. It doesn't mean that it's not important, um, but what it does mean is that it's not going to impact you know your home and and the and the securities that you've got. Whereas you rent your council tax, gas and electric, there's obviously you know more inherent risk if you fall behind on those. You know, I think people say the cost of living all the time, but we really do see in the people that we support in the way that their debts have changed, that it's still impacting people today.
SPEAKER_01:So are are you seeing, just while we're looking at patterns, because five years ago, I don't think Klana was a thing. Are you seeing much of that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's grown a lot, even in the last 12 months. So one in five of the customers that we support at the moment have a buy now pay later debt, which is doubled on the year before. So even in the last 12 months, it shot up, you know, ridiculous amounts. And one of the conversations that we have so much with people is that they don't see it as a debt. We'll go through the debts that the customer has and we'll see Klarna or we'll see ClearPay or whoever the lender is, and they'll go, Oh no, that's fine, that's that's not a debt. People don't treat it as one. There's regulation that is is due to come into effect next summer, which is hopefully going to give people more protection from buying out pay later, but also give people more information on it as well, which will hopefully kind of change that mindset.
SPEAKER_01:I feel like we've moved away from the payday lender into the pay it on the drip, the klana's and the easy pay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it is.
SPEAKER_01:I just feel like the payday lenders were clamped down on it's like we found the loophole that is Klaner and just easy ways to pay, because the fact remains people still need to find money somehow to get by.
SPEAKER_00:And people see that as a as an as an avenue to do that, don't they? It's yeah, it's just becoming so mainstream and so normal, and uh, and yeah, it can just it can become a slippery slope, can't it? And that's why we need those protections.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and that and that almost feels quite cynical the way that's structured as well, isn't it, to kind of push you down the Klana route.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's just it's there, isn't it? It's there, it's in your face. And people need to have clear choices, don't they, and and clear options.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. They do, particularly at this time of year, because we we're talking in December. I'm guessing this is going to be one of the busiest times of year, or I should say after Christmas will be one of the busiest times for you, Matt.
SPEAKER_00:We're yeah, we you can probably imagine that we're busy all year round, but I think in terms of the quietest month of year for us is typically December, and our busiest typically January, and I think that is just a reflection that people don't want to worry about money in December because they've got so many really important things going on that month, and again, I can't begrudge people for doing that. Last year, so many people were going on the online journey on Christmas Day, right? Probably after they've had the Christmas dinner, they they know that those debts are there and they they decide to have a look at you know online advice and debt advice on Christmas Day itself. People still thinking about it.
SPEAKER_01:Coming back to bread and butter, so I I'm guessing you you get a flood of inquiries in January. Do you do much more activity then? Do you come out to the hubs more in January?
SPEAKER_00:Or yeah, we we try and just have that steady flow throughout the year. If anything, we'd probably rather come out a little bit more in November, in December to preempt those conversations. We try and do that as much as we can in mainly the Manchester area. So we're based in Media City in the Salford area, so we try and go out to as many local hubs as possible, which is really good fun. I really enjoy it, so it's um nice to get out there.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so top tips then for getting your way through Christmas. What's the best way of getting through this without ending up with a financial burden?
SPEAKER_00:The first thing that I always tell people some people might think it's the boring part, but it's creating a budget, writing down everything that you've got coming in, everything that you've got coming out, just to actually get a sense of what you have to spend for Christmas, and you can do that ideally, say in September, October, so you've got a few months worth of potential money to put aside, but even if you're doing it this month, actually get a little bit of an idea of what you've got left to spend, and then it means that firstly you're not going to overcommit, then from there it's just about trying to find the right things to buy. And I know that my mum is probably a little bit of an inspiration for that because she is someone that buys Christmas presents sometimes over 12 months in advance. So if you can lessen that burden in December by buying things the following month for the following year, you really will feel the benefit of that when the following Christmas comes around. So we'd always recommend looking at the sales. Obviously, don't go crazy, um, you know, only get the things that you feel like you're going to need to buy. Um, but that's a really helpful tip as well. And if you can try and cut back in other areas, it could be that you do choose to get more things from the bread and butter thing that month, which will free up a little bit more money to spend on Christmas shopping or on your turkey or whatever it may be. Yeah. Just being smart and just try and find those little ways that you can cut back five, ten pounds because it does all add up.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I guess the other one as well, Matt, is when people think they should come to you, quite a lot of the time that you'd probably be thinking, I just wish they'd come a bit earlier.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. I'd say it's probably worth mentioning that before my current role at Money Wellness, I was a debt advisor, so I do have experience of kind of being on the front line and speaking to people, and it would you know quite often be that all I would speak to that day is customers that have a bailiff coming to them the next day, or it there's been that real trigger that's resulted in them seeking help, and I would just absolutely wish that they'd had that conversation two months ago because they wouldn't have had to endure the stress that they've had to get to that point. I think some researchers showed that on average it takes a year from the point that someone should be seeking help to actually get the help. So if you are finding that at the end of each month it feels like you've got more coming out than what you've got coming in, that alone should be assigned to seek help. There's so much stigma around what debt advice is. I think some people think it's just you're going to instantly be made bankrupt, which is far from the case. It's just taking that step, finding out what debt advice is, and there's so many options, it doesn't have to be a debt solution, it can be helping you with grants, it can be directing you to people like yourselves and other organisations that can help you cut back. Just take that step.
SPEAKER_01:And some organisations will forgive the debt as well, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, some organisations, you know, depending on your personal circumstances, you know, if you've got particular vulnerabilities or disabilities, they may be willing to forgive debt altogether, but you sometimes don't know that unless you have these conversations because no one would expect you to have all that information. It goes all the way through to things like utility providers have grants, support that's there for people that have a raise. So people will speak to us, maybe expecting that they'll need to you know go on a debt solution or declare themselves insolvent or whatever it will be. But actually, in reality, we know about this grant that they might be eligible for. They go and get that grant, and that was all the help that they needed. And if that could have been done three months earlier, you know, I can only imagine the stress and the anxiety that would be reduced from from getting that help a little bit sooner.
SPEAKER_01:There'll be members and people listening to this, Matt. What would you say to them if they're feeling the stress of January in the bills?
SPEAKER_00:The first thing I'd say is if you do feel like you've got debts that you're struggling to repay, reach out, get that support. You know, you can reach us on moneywellness.com, find everything that you need on there.
SPEAKER_01:And sooner rather than later, I guess.
SPEAKER_00:Sooner rather than later. Even if you are not a hundred percent sure that you need a debt solution or it's the first month that you've been struggling, get that help that you need. And hopefully, you know, as February rolls around and hopefully things get a little bit better, then you can start to look forward to next Christmas and get that planning done that a little bit sooner. So hopefully the following December and the following January, that strange is a little bit less.
SPEAKER_01:So we've got a few service providers coming up, Vic, on debt and things, uh, and they've all kind of got different things to say and offer slightly different services. But one of the things that you'll see as a common thread is getting help sooner rather than later. Yeah. Everybody waits because I don't know why, because I mean we could have an entire podcast just on the wider people wait, but all the service providers would say get in early, even if you're not even sure if you're in trouble yet, just talk to them. Because the sooner you talk to them, the sooner they can help you.
SPEAKER_02:No, I I've heard that as well, and I'm pretty sure somebody said to me like quite a while ago, that they can do quite a lot of support with people up to a level of debt, but once you flip over that level of debt, it then becomes really tricky to deal with it. So actually, go in with a smaller debt is more beneficial, even though maybe I think from our members there's two things, two main reasons. One would be too embarrassed, yeah. You know, I would avoid opening letters as long as I can because there's only bad letters that come nowadays. So why look at them? And then the other thing is there's always someone worse off than you. We hear that all the time from our members, and our people are important, members are important. Getting that little bit of help up front when you first need it actually might really help you getting into a lot more, you know, needing a lot more support further down the line, getting your situation worse. But people are always saying, Oh, somebody deserves that support more than I do, I'll be alright. And we hear that everywhere, don't we?
SPEAKER_01:Definitely. So the other common thread you're gonna hear, Vic, over these service providers that have come on to talk to us about finance and debt and stuff as well, is this new landscape because the buy now pay later, pay it on the never never easy pay clona type has really changed the landscape as well.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. People are using that for everyday stuff though.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly.
SPEAKER_02:People will use that for food. They are, and that's really scary.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and the difficulty is it's just like the payday loans were, because as long as you stick within the rules, it all works. But the second you go over and you become overdue, the interest rates go through the roof.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And then there'll be someone saying, actually, if you do this, it'll help your credit score. Well, it only helps your credit score if you can afford to pay it back. It doesn't if you get into debt. But they don't tell you that bit of small print, do they?
SPEAKER_01:No, it it doesn't. And I'm sure you shop online like I do, the number of places where if you're not careful, you actually accidentally click on buy now, pay later rather than just paying immediately on checkout, sort of thing.
SPEAKER_02:I'm pretty sure that there's some stores, I'm not going to name them in case I'm wrong, where the default, and it's actually if you're doing online, you can't just pay. You've got to get the store card, and then you've got to remember to pay further down the line. Yeah. And I've done that where I've forgotten, because I don't do it all the time, and you're like, oh, I just got this one thing and I've forgotten about it. Yeah, yeah. And then you get a letter through, the letter that I ignore, that says you should have paid this bill. So easy done.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it would be interesting to see uh the inner geek in me shouting, go and find some stats on this mark, but I I bet they're not out there yet with regards to just how much debt there is on the uh buy now pay laters.
SPEAKER_02:Well, does everyone have to be transparent about that?
SPEAKER_01:Again, I don't think legislation's caught up with it yet. I I think it needs to, but I I don't think it has. So there's lots and lots of it. Super easy. I mean, it is so easy just to click on the button on a website or whatever and get your food paid over three easy instalments that you already can't afford.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It's too easy.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and then that's where people like Matt and services like Money Wellness come into their own, isn't it? Because it's like, right, okay.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:You know, everybody does it, there's absolutely no judge, but now you're in a bit of a pickle financially, right? What can we do to help you?
SPEAKER_01:And I think Matt was saying it as well that, you know, it's not a judgment thing, but it is just too easy.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I kind of think we can say that it's too easy, but then why shouldn't people have a treat? You know, many of our families, it's Christmas time. This is the one part of the year where they go, sod it, I am gonna give the kids a present. I've not given them a birthday present all year.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:They're gonna, you know, we've done no trips in the summer. Sod it, they're having a they're having a Christmas present, and I'll pay for that next year.
SPEAKER_01:No, I get it, and this is the dichotomy, right? Because the truth is that people are using easy pay ways of buying our pay later purely and simply because actually they want to do exactly that, Vig. And, you know, I I'm with you, I think they deserve it. And why shouldn't they? But at the same time, someone's got to give. There has to be some sort of affordable, friendly, social-led debt lending that is not credit unions because they're too hard as well. Because if credit unions could look like Klona, there you go. That might be an answer.
SPEAKER_02:Can I give you a different answer? Let's not make everything so expensive in the first place.
SPEAKER_01:I'm with you.
SPEAKER_02:Like, why are we solving the problem? Let's like the root causes life's really expensive.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:People can't afford it. And you know, what was 50p a couple of years ago is now£1.50 and it's smaller. People are struggling, not because they're greedy or that they want a lot, it's because the basic essentials they can't afford anymore. And that's the problem.
SPEAKER_01:Well, okay, so you know, I like to throw you a curveball, Vic. So our government said last week that uh obviously we're over the worst of it and inflation's coming down and things are getting easy. Is that your official response?
SPEAKER_02:Wow, it's all over now. We're fixed, it's fine.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, what was a crazy metaphor? We've been through the tightest bit of the tunnel now, or something deaf like that.
SPEAKER_02:I've got a lot of thoughts that aren't filterable for this podcast. So carry on.
SPEAKER_01:So I guess you're on the same page then as the over 100,000 registered members that we've got that would be uh screaming and saying what a lot of crap that is.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Which politician said that? Was that a Rachel Reeves thing?
SPEAKER_01:Kia Starmer.
SPEAKER_02:Kia, okay. Maybe I might write to Kia and just say, You said this, please can you come and meet some of our members before you say it again?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Because we don't see that in any of our communities. There is not one of our members that's going, Oh, I'm all right now. Thanks very much, bread and butter. Don't need you anymore. Um, in fact, I'm gonna start cooking for the community because I've got so much money and food's so cheap. Literally, not a person saying that.
SPEAKER_01:I I I'm hearing feisty vic coming out there.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's really annoyed me. I didn't hear that. I'm glad that I didn't hear that. Although now you've told me.
SPEAKER_01:Wow. Angry from Huddersfield, writing to Mr. Starmer.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, Harumph from Huddersfield.
SPEAKER_01:Amen to that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I felt we should have had Matt on earlier in the year because he he did have some really sensible stuff to talk about for Christmas, you know. And the really tough one for me was that they saw website spikes on Christmas Day, just after Christmas lunch, of people logging on and registering and getting help on Christmas Day.
SPEAKER_02:That's really sad, isn't it? Like, oh, we've opened all the presents and I've seen everything now, and it's suddenly become tangible because when it's online, it's not real until it's there in front of you, right? That's yeah, that's tough.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and the rest of the family are probably still enjoying Christmas Day, and whoever it is in the family is probably sat on the phone and everybody just wonders what they're doing on the phone, they're back on social media or whatever, but I actually know they're on Matt's website.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's tough. So these tips then.
SPEAKER_01:So tips, I mean he he's an advocate for like Christmas clubby stuff, put stuff away, but more practical to say, look for the bargains, you know, I know it used to be a thing. Is it still a thing? January sales.
SPEAKER_02:Black Friday took over from that, didn't it?
SPEAKER_01:I don't know, because I I don't do either.
SPEAKER_02:Not a shopper. Um one of the things that I used to do, uh, especially when I was really skin, was you buy all your wrapping paper and your cards like on Boxing Day, because they're like tiny money. It's like, you know, you pay two quid for wrapping paper before Christmas and it's 20p or something. You've just then got to remember where you've put it for the following Christmas. Because that's always my trouble. Like, I think I've got some. Where is it? Yeah. So there's things like that, I think that's good.
SPEAKER_01:There are. And again, it goes back to that same problem of if you haven't already spent all your money.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So when he told me about that website spike, it really hit me hard because it you can see the bubble bursting. I actually felt the bubble bursting on Christmas Day, which felt really crap.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. It's not what you'd expect from a Christmas Day. You know, what you'd hope for people in the in, you know, you'd want kind of joy and merry cheer all day, wouldn't you? And then maybe Boxing Day or hopefully the day after. But it just goes to show it's at the forefront of people's minds constantly. People are thinking about money all the time. You never stop. No, agreed. And I don't think people understand that that's what our members are doing day in and day out. So when Keya Starmer says it's all fixed now.
SPEAKER_01:Well, he didn't quite say that, Vic. I know you I know you're getting angry about it now, but he didn't quite say that. He knows there's still a hill to climb.
SPEAKER_02:He may as well. I'm sure if any of our members heard it, they'd have kind of just taken that subtext and thought, well.
SPEAKER_01:No, I'm patting myself on my back for BBC Balance though. Oh right, okay. I'm wholeheartedly with you. Yeah, for the first time ever, I I avoided the soapbox. If you'd like to know more about the Bread and Butter Thing and what we get up to, you can find us on Team TBBT at TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, on LinkedIn, or online at breadandbutterthing.org.
SPEAKER_02:And if you've got any feedback or thoughts on the podcast or you want to join us and be our guest, drop us an email at podcast at breadandbutterthing.org.
SPEAKER_01:And we are always open to new members at all of our hubs. If you or someone you know would benefit from our affordable food scheme, you can find your nearest hub on the Become a Member pages of the website.
SPEAKER_02:And please do everything that podcast asks you to do. Like us, subscribe, leave us a review, share us with your friends, and chat about us on those social pages we mentioned.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, see you next time. See ya.
