A Slice of Bread and Butter

Two Mums, Seven Kids, And A Whole Lot Of Grit Explain Why Budgeting Isn’t The Problem

• The Bread and Butter Thing

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A tenner doesn’t go far when milk costs more at the corner shop and the drive to a cheaper supermarket eats your fuel. We sit down with Sam and Jackie, two mums who turn surplus food into dinners, neighbours into friends, and hard choices into a kind of everyday heroism. Their stories move fast: winter coats for five kids, PE kits due the same week, fuel planned like a spreadsheet, and homework set online without laptops at home. It’s the UK cost-of-living crunch at ground level, told with humour, grit, and a fierce love for their families.

We unpack what a month on Universal Credit and child benefit really looks like once rent, gas, and electric clear. Sam and Jackie explain why budgeting isn’t the problem when prices jump and pack sizes shrink, and why parents so often eat last. We explore the safety nets that actually work: The Bread and Butter Thing’s surplus food bags, church parcels that bridge the worst days, and the small, steady kindness of borrowing a fiver or a bag of chips from a friend. Along the way, we talk about the postcode lottery of council support, the debt baked into furniture packages, and the absurd gap between seven-year product lifespans and ten-year replacement rules.

This conversation challenges tired myths about poverty and budgeting. You’ll hear how fuel budgets shape daily choices, how phones become essential study tools, and how kids learn to share slices so mum and dad can eat. It’s a clear-eyed picture of scarcity managed with extraordinary skill, and a reminder that community turns survival into something more hopeful. If this resonates, share it with a friend, subscribe for more real-life stories, and leave a review to help others find the show. Your support helps us reach more families who could use a little bread, a little butter, and a lot of community.

SPEAKER_00:

Hello and welcome back to a slice of bread and butter with me, Vic, and Mum, we're from the Bread and Butter Thing.

SPEAKER_02:

We run a network of mobile food clubs that take surplus food from supermarkets, farms and factories and we take it straight into the communities where families are struggling to get by.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so for less than a tenner, our members get bags packed with fruit, veg, fridge food, cupboard staples, and a bit of frozen if they're lucky. It's a weekly shop that helps stretch the budget and take some of the pressure off.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and our members are at the heart of everything we do. They turn food into friendship and neighbours into community. That's what makes us tick. It is. Double trouble today. Let's have a listen to Sam and Jackie.

SPEAKER_04:

I've got four girls 14, 13, 12, and 11. And we're in Mexborough, in Doncaster.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm Sam, and I have a bigger bunch. I have seven kids, four of mine, and three of my husband, and they're age from 20 to 10, and we have three grandchildren. There's only five kids at home at the moment. The two oldest have moved out. And we live in Swinton, which is in Rotherham, Sheffield.

SPEAKER_02:

How did you get involved with bread and butter?

SPEAKER_03:

I come to a cooking lesson and never left. So did I.

SPEAKER_02:

Wow.

SPEAKER_04:

We actually been here both from the beginning.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

That's how we met through bread and butter.

SPEAKER_03:

That's nice. We do pretty much everything together. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

So we started at bread and butter and now we do everything.

SPEAKER_02:

Perfect. So what do you do? Because normally everyone's got a fixed job with volunteering.

SPEAKER_03:

Just everybody helps everybody, really. I run the kitchen. So I'm in charge of putting things away, tidying up and that kind of thing in the kitchen. And I sort of boss people around.

SPEAKER_04:

Fruit and veg a lot of times, yeah. So and make sure nobody goes in Sam's kitchen. Yeah, my kitchen. At the end.

SPEAKER_02:

So what about home? Do you either of you work?

SPEAKER_03:

I don't work. I'm on sick. I have um a condition called sarcoidosis, which is a lung cancer. So I haven't worked for how old's Leland? Ten, so about ten, about eight years?

SPEAKER_02:

I I'm I'm really shocked with that. It's a lung cancer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

It won't kill me, but it's the other stuff around it that will affect me before the lung goes, if that makes sense. It's quite a difficult one to explain. It's in the I call them the broccolis. I know that's the wrong word. Broncise. Yeah, that one. So it sort of makes them not the right shape to hold the oxygen. So like I've got odd shaped broccoli.

SPEAKER_04:

Broncky's.

SPEAKER_02:

Odd shaped broccolies. Yeah, odd shaped broccoli. Well you fit right in with bread and butter, then.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, pretty much with the wonky veg, don't they?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And then I'm also on sick. I've got a all on the left side, my ankle pops out of place, my knee and my hip. Old age. I'm over 32, it's not old age. And he's probably having four kids.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

All at once.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Probably.

SPEAKER_02:

How do you survive?

SPEAKER_03:

Because you've got two.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

But very difficult, very difficult, especially with the cost of food going up. It's getting a bit stressful at times.

SPEAKER_02:

Both families are fully reliant on benefits, I guess.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, we get UC and child benefit, that's all we get out of the house. That's all we get out of here.

SPEAKER_02:

So th there's no pips or anything? No. Roughly, how much do you think you got after rent and utilities and stuff?

SPEAKER_03:

I'm left with less than 400 quid.

SPEAKER_04:

I'm probably left with probably about the same to have food and everything else, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

So both of you are left with about 400 quid a month to feed feed clove seven in my house. Have you got anything behind you, any savings or anything like that?

SPEAKER_03:

No, I spent mine when I moved up here ten years ago.

SPEAKER_02:

What happens if there's an emergency?

SPEAKER_03:

If your washing machine breaks or you ring your friends and ask them to wash your clothes for you. Oh, you would use your bath. Yeah.

unknown:

Oh no, they're too.

SPEAKER_03:

Seriously. Yeah. Seriously. There's nothing else, so you you can't get any help like you used to be able to. You didn't can't ring up people and ask for white goods or ask for help towards white goods or anything like that. They just tell you no, you need to budget your money more, or they've uh you can only use so I don't know whether Rotherham is the same.

SPEAKER_04:

So I live in Doncaster and she lives in Rotherham. So they're quite different councils. Yeah. So Doncaster, you're only allowed like a washer, a fridge freezer or a cooker once every ten years.

SPEAKER_02:

Because they last that long, right?

SPEAKER_03:

No, yeah, of course they do with that many kids. Yeah. We do the furniture package, so when you move in, they give you a furniture package which you pay for on top of your rent every month for the rest of your tenancy. And that is if anything breaks down that they've given you they will fix and come and repair for free. They do fridges, freezers, washing machines, tomorrow dryers, cookers, they do your carpet, they do beds, sofas, tables, wardrobes, all of that. Get to pick like depending on how big your house is, you get to pick so many items. We picked the carpet package, was our main one that we picked for our house. Which maybe we shouldn't have. But we were alright then.

SPEAKER_02:

What what's changed?

SPEAKER_03:

Just the cost of everything going up. So um we drive, my partner drives, cost of fuel's gone up, which then puts my budget up because I've need to budget for school runs and emergency trips and other bits and bobs for him because he does a lot for the community in it. And then food-wise, I used to be able to walk to the shop and get four pints of milk and a loaf of bread with a fiver, and now I've taken a tenner with me because I don't get no change.

SPEAKER_02:

Is that the local convenience store type thing, a corner shop? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Because otherwise I've got a drive which is using my fuel, which I can't budget for because I need it for other stuff. So yeah, and then you're left with just the overpriced prices of your local shops then.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. We've talked to people about how they budget. So can you tell us a bit about how you get that 400 quid to spread? Because Universal Credit UC comes in monthly, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, so I got mine last Friday. So Friday's just gone, I've got nothing left. And we're on Wednesday, and there's no food in my house.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, but let's just wind back a bit though because it's a massive problem, obviously. But let me just check because you said you normally after everything you've got 400 quid left. But like less than a week in.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, so the kids all needed new winter coats. So that cost me nearly£200 for five winter coats. Right. And then there was PE trousers, so winter PE clothes. That was again another£50 odd quid on top. And then there was school trips that I've had to pay for this month. And I think I was left with about£35, and I gave 15 of that to my partner to put in the car, and I have a tenner left, and I paid for my bag today. Yep. Oh, I've got two pounds something changed.

SPEAKER_02:

So you've got three and a bit weeks left.

SPEAKER_03:

And I'm on my bottom already.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. So what's the plan?

SPEAKER_03:

I just scrimp and scrape and do what I need to do. So we've got veg downstairs, so we just cook all that up and do in like your slow cooker or your air fryer or like shepherd's pie and things like that. And then just ask me dad.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And then that's it really. And if dad doesn't cough, then the kids eat and we don't.

SPEAKER_02:

Does dad normally cough up?

SPEAKER_03:

Sometimes, if my eldest two haven't got there before me. And then that's that on top. So I've got two oldest kids that don't live at home. So when they ring up and ask for things for their gas or electric, obviously then I lend it to them and then I'm waiting for them to get paid to have it back. So then that puts me behind on my budget, but obviously they're my kids, so I'm not gonna see them come back. You can put them first. Yeah. So yeah. Then we're back in the same boat again. Come next month. Oh, and that's without even Christmas, birthdays, or anything, you know.

SPEAKER_02:

Gonna say Christmas is coming up, but we've got four birthdays. How many birthday? Four. Four. Yeah. So so it's November now, so it's like one a week.

SPEAKER_03:

My twelve year old didn't get anything for his birthday. He I had no money to get him anything whatsoever. He got a card and that was it. But a card's good enough, I know. Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

What about your budgeting? I'm I'm gonna ask you.

SPEAKER_04:

My payday's tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02:

Your payday is tomorrow, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, and they already are out. I've already borrowed, so I need to pay that back tomorrow. Rent's always first. Yeah, rent, gas. Gas electric. Water. Water comes out already. Everything automatically comes out. We have school to pay all the time and then they have for clubs and things.

SPEAKER_02:

So Because people would say one of the big problems is that people like yourselves that are struggling on benefits or whatever, you just rubbish at budgeting.

SPEAKER_04:

I budget like nothing to do with budgeting.

SPEAKER_03:

You can only budget for what you've got if the prices are too bad.

SPEAKER_04:

I haven't changed my what I buy. So what I bought last year is the same thing I bought this year, but it's three times as much.

SPEAKER_03:

Or they get smaller. So they used to be packs of six or eight. It's now inflation, right? Yeah, so now it's packs of like four or five. So I have to buy more of them because there's more people in my house.

SPEAKER_02:

So how much do you owe?

SPEAKER_03:

What right now?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. About£100 out.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, so tomorrow hopefully that will get fixed.

SPEAKER_04:

It will get paid.

SPEAKER_02:

But you're already a hundred quid behind tomorrow then as a result, aren't you? So so does that mean that the 400's down to 300 already?

SPEAKER_04:

Already, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

So what gives?

SPEAKER_04:

Me eating. Because the kids come first. Always. Or I eat while they leave.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

We have our local church. We go there quite often if we need help with anything. And they can do little food parcels or they rally around. And then we have bread and butter. So when the bags are finished with the ones that are left behind, we put into our cupboards or our freezers, ready for the following week if there's a bit low in the stock or there's you know we haven't got enough mince pies to go in every bag, so we'll put this in. So we do then have the choice of that we can come here and we can get a bit of chicken out of the freezer, or I don't know, sometimes we have boxes of cereals in the cupboard and things like that. But without it, no, but without that we wouldn't we wouldn't eat. There would be no other way. Me and Craig have gone weeks without eating before. Literally just living off coffee. I'd rather put in my trolley what my kids are gonna eat than something that I'm gonna sit and eat. Unless it comes to a bottle of coke, I might buy myself a bottle of coke.

SPEAKER_02:

And you your kids are teenagers, right? Both of them.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. My youngest is just turn and ten. They know.

SPEAKER_02:

I was gonna say They know.

SPEAKER_03:

They all know. They all sit there, and last night we had pizza, and every single one of them saved a piece of pizza on the plate to give to me and their dad. They shouldn't have to do that. They shouldn't have to know that that is our struggle and that's what we struggle with every day. Like when they ask me for 50p, I haven't got 50p. Or you ask me for a pound to go out with your friends, I haven't got that pound. But why haven't you? Because I don't have any money, I don't know what else you want me to say. And it's hard when they want to go out into the cinema and do different things with their friends, and you just haven't got the money to give it. And if you do give it, you've got to give it to all of them, not just one.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because that's at least a fire broker, right?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. So it's 25 quid gone. It's it's tough, it's hard. It and especially when it comes to this time of year, it gets a lot harder.

SPEAKER_02:

Do you ta chat and lean on each other a bit about this stuff then?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. I've borrowed off a Jackie before. I don't think I've paid everything back, but I've definitely borrowed off her before.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. But I know she'll get back when she's got it.

SPEAKER_03:

And that's it's not just community, right? Yes.

SPEAKER_04:

Even if she wants a bag of chips out in the freezer. Yeah, I have a bag of chips. I always buy too many chips. So I was gonna say all the people.

SPEAKER_03:

All the people that come here though, they're all lovely. They're all we don't just We all help each other. So we all sort of get together as a community and help each other.

SPEAKER_04:

We don't just sit there and I haven't been here for three weeks and everybody's asked, Why ain't you been here? Where are you been? What are you doing? And then nobody can get a cold of me because m my phone's rubbish. Because it hasn't got WhatsApp on it. So I've had to download WhatsApp on my kids' phone.

SPEAKER_02:

Let's talk a bit about that as well then, because kids and homework and It's all online.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Which is very hard. I hate technology with a passion. Really, really annoys me.

SPEAKER_02:

What annoys you about technology?

SPEAKER_03:

Just that they're they're in it like that all day.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, so they're glued to it.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, walking along the streets and you're going out for a family day and they're on their phones, you sit there having a meal, they're on their phones. I've just started doing that, they don't have it now past half past seven at night because I'm not.

SPEAKER_04:

Nine o'clock they go on charge once they're charged, the charges then get turned off to save electric.

SPEAKER_02:

I get it. But it sounds realistic.

SPEAKER_03:

I mean Well, it it doesn't I'm just hoping to go off today.

SPEAKER_02:

Phones as well, right?

SPEAKER_03:

The phones are all of mine have got a phone. The two youngest have got secondhand phones, all the others have got new phones. Uh they're all contract, they're all in my name, and they're all ten pounds a month. So that's 70 quid a month.

SPEAKER_02:

And do they have laptops as well? No. So do they have to do homework on their phones?

SPEAKER_04:

On the phone. Or stay at school for after school club for homework club.

SPEAKER_03:

Which is what one of mine chooses to do.

SPEAKER_02:

But the rest of them try and do it on the phone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Which I just don't do it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

All homework now for secondary s school kids is online.

SPEAKER_03:

And any communication between you and that school is online.

SPEAKER_04:

So I can't contact school.

SPEAKER_02:

Because all you've got is an old Nokia, right? It's a sort of thing. So I'm guessing you don't have a laptop or anything either.

SPEAKER_04:

Yesterday I missed a meeting with church because I didn't have a phone.

SPEAKER_02:

You mean you didn't have a smartphone? You've got a phone. But actually, you you don't have anything with an email on it.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, WhatsApp.

SPEAKER_03:

It doesn't have WhatsApp.

SPEAKER_02:

Talk to me about the people that come to bread and butter.

SPEAKER_03:

It's um the people that come are all different people. We have nurses that come, people that work at supermarkets, people that don't work, old people, young people, families, single people. But I do find Mexico's quite a deprived area. There's a lot of drug and alcohol misuse. Drugs are probably cheaper than alcohol around here.

SPEAKER_04:

You can get a can for a pound. Would you want to buy a chocolate bar for a pound or a can?£1.69 for a chocolate bar in the shop now. The cheap Euro shopper bar is£1.15. That used to be last year it was£49. You know, I can't even like tomorrow the kids will have one treat. So they will have a picnic or a takeaway one day a month. That might cost me£50 on my budget, but it's worth it.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, uh big families.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, lots of kids. Kids are expensive.

SPEAKER_02:

Kids are really expensive, and I could just feel the two of them. They really, really support each other clearly nowadays, which was just amazing to see they met at bread and butter become friends, and they're clearly peasing a pod those two.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, they were 100% double trouble. I really enjoyed that chat. And yeah, I think you're right. The fact that they met at bread and butter, and then they just sound so tight and just so supportive for each other. It's brilliant.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it did. Even when they're talking about hardship, they're just still up and positive and having a bit of banter with each other almost. They're just like taking it in their stride. I don't know how they do it.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I think for many of our members, if you don't laugh, you're gonna cry. So it's more fun to laugh, right? And you just put on your little suit of armour and carry on and do the best that you possibly can.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, well, I don't think it was a little suit of armour, I think it was enormous. Yeah. Both of them with so many kids and juggling so many budgets, that was tough.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and one of the things for me that I hadn't I don't think we've had it on the podcast, and I certainly don't think I've heard it from a member, is the fuel budget. So lots of people, especially in rural areas, have cars and they need them to get around and they just kind of accept that the car is a cost. I've never heard someone saying, like, I'm budgeting my journeys. That was a first.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it was a first. I'm sure there will be members out there screaming at us saying it's not a first, but it's the first time we've heard it on the podcast for sure.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and you can understand why when you buy in four winter coats in one or five winter coats in one go, that's some layout of cash just to keep kids warm.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, so it was the coats and the PE kit, wasn't it? And then nothing left.

SPEAKER_00:

And you can't skimp on a winter coat, really, can you? It's kind of pointless if you don't buy a half decent one.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. So Christmas is coming and Sam's pockets are clearly going to be empty with four birthdays before Christmas, as well as Christmas. Uh, twelve-year-old's already just had a birthday card and a hug.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. They were talking about the kids know that you just can't hide it, that it's just so much of a fact of life that you know it's a thing. And then I guess in some respects, and this doesn't make it right at all, but then the disappointment is a bit less because you know you're not expecting anything.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

But as a parent, I'm always the one that says you want to keep it from your kids as long as you can so that they've got a bit of innocent childhood. And I think that's every parent's wish, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, but I think it's getting younger and younger when they spot it.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, and when you've got older brothers and sisters, it's harder to keep those things a secret, isn't it? Because if the older one knows, then is it rubbing off on the younger one?

SPEAKER_02:

Yep, it will. Being the youngest of four, I'll tell you, it will.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, did you actually get any new clothes for yourself?

SPEAKER_02:

Eventually, but um as a as a kid I had double trouble, so I I had the woes of mum thinking that she could make clothes.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh.

SPEAKER_02:

Which, take it from me, she couldn't.

SPEAKER_00:

I got that from the word thinking in there. Mum thinking she could make clothes.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and and then the hand-me-downs after that, yeah. Great. She tried to make me a pair of jeans once and I I wouldn't go to school in them.

SPEAKER_00:

That's kind of a strong item to think even a meeting.

SPEAKER_02:

It was a bold, bold move.

SPEAKER_00:

Did you have to do a double denim look with it as well and look like status quo? No, but there wasn't a company in tank top. Okay, well, thankfully, we've modernised a little bit since then, and those fashions are out.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I was gonna say, I mean, the these guys had their own worries though, because they were talking about homework, yeah. Uh and school and everything being online nowadays, and the family's got phones, great, but they had two problems, didn't they, getting the kids off the phone, but also getting them to do their homework. How do they do it? Because they can't do it on the phones.

SPEAKER_00:

And also the financial bit that goes behind making sure that all your kids have got a phone. Yeah. And who's going to be the parent that doesn't give the kid a phone so that they get picked on at school is like it's so challenging to kind of make the right decisions. You know, and it was interesting that if you at school know that it's a problem because they do that homework club.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

We've chatted about this previously, where shouldn't everyone just be given a laptop?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And it feels like, oh, so you know there's an issue.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So you can make kids stay late. I don't know that I ever wanted to stay late at school. You probably never went. Thanks for that.

SPEAKER_02:

I'm not even going to answer that.

SPEAKER_00:

So I I mean, I think Sam and Jackie were just really a good example of what a bread and butter member sounds like, full of fun. Yeah. Laughing regardless because that's what you gotta do. And just getting on, you know, the amount of times that they're like you're like, How'd you cope? Well we just do.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Got to. There's no other option. Like, we've got some feisty, determined members.

SPEAKER_02:

Honestly, both of them.

SPEAKER_00:

Really resilient and amazing people.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

That cope with whatever life throws at them.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And you know, washing the clothes in the bath and sharing everything and demonstrating they know every trick to cope. But it's hard, isn't it, when you're juggling all of that.

SPEAKER_02:

It is. And I I tell you what else was hard, and it and it was even on a micro level, Vic, and it just highlights they're in two local authorities next to each other and they had different support from their local authority. Talk about a postcode lottery.

SPEAKER_00:

And talk about how confusing it is. Yeah. Because they're friends and one's going, oh, my council did this. But that'll be happening to many of our families. Because nobody sees the local authority boundary on the floor, do they? It's not drawn.

SPEAKER_02:

No, not at all.

SPEAKER_00:

To know which way you've got to like basically look at your bin to know what council you're in.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And then, you know, like, well, I've got this support, well, I can't get it from mine. You know, we always talk about the hidden help, but it's also the not hidden but not accessible help. That's a nuanced message.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. I'm feeling if I could get a roulette wheel with uh 300 plus numbers on it to demonstrate the uh absurdity of the uh local authorities and what support you can and can't get from them.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, because I was shocked that you can't get a white good in one area because I thought that all local authorities did that, but what do I know? And then you're only allowed one every ten years.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Like whose rule is that?

SPEAKER_02:

I don't know. I I and compare and contrast, because trading standards would tell you that the expected life of a white good is seven years. So they've pushed it out a bit further as well, and it's right hand and left hand again, because trading standards work into seven years and yet the support system working to ten.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I mean that's some arbitrary rule, isn't it? Really? Oh, it's got to last you for ten years. Yeah. Didn't compute really.

SPEAKER_02:

No.

SPEAKER_00:

Furniture packages, eh?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. I feel anything that you've got to pay monthly for like this i is really difficult. And Sam said it herself, she took the carpet package, right? And and is kind of semi-regretting it now because they're in a better place when they took it. They've now got carpets they can't afford.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I don't know. That was that a local authority thing. Yeah, it was where where the councils are kind of saying here's your house and you can layer on this stuff.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. And that's relatively common, but I I would imagine the commercials around it are not.

SPEAKER_00:

No, there's no security there though, is there?

SPEAKER_02:

No, and it's it it it's it's I'm trying not to say deaf, but I'm just gonna say deaf because actually what they're doing is loading people with debt and setting them up to fail as they move in.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I guess to be fair to the councils, I reckon back in the day there was a time where that seemed like it was a good option, and then every the price of everything's gone up and the the model's broken.

SPEAKER_02:

I'm with you, but Ranty McRant face here would say the difficulty with it is everybody sits still and it's this kind of status quo bias, isn't it, of never checking it. There needs to be a feedback loop because you know the the face of poverty has moved so quickly and in these past five years it it looks so different, but I guarantee you most policies don't.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's absolutely right. I agree with that. The other thing on Sam and Jackie that interested me was about the borrowing money from each other, yeah, and then knowing if the two kids that don't live at home need help with the gas and electric, then they get spotted some cash until they get paid, and then there's a cash flow loop that's kind of going within the family, almost within concentric circles, and that just kind of gets that the cash flow much more complicated really quickly, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01:

For sure.

SPEAKER_00:

Which I don't think we ever we talk about family debt and we talk about borrowing off people, but we don't then think about what that cash flow looks like. And I get paid this Friday, you get paid next Friday. Yeah, yeah. Do I get a bit of cash back next Friday? But then are you skint again by the third Friday? And ooh, it's complicated already, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02:

It really is. I wouldn't want to map that.

SPEAKER_00:

No, but these people like Sam and Jackie have it in their heads.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, because every penny counts and because they know exactly who who's what, because you know they've not got anything. So they they have to know where the resources are, right?

SPEAKER_00:

100%. But I just think that, you know, people in power think that many of our members can't count or can't budget or can't cash flow. They're absolute pros at it. But like they said, if they've not got the cash in the first place, yeah, what are they saving? What are they budgeting? That you know, it's a different way of looking at it, isn't it? That again, go back to your policy point, policy hasn't caught up with.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So if you'd like to know more about the bread and butter thing and what we get up to, you can find us at Team TBBT on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, LinkedIn, or online at the breadandbutterthing.org.

SPEAKER_02:

And if you have any thoughts or feedback on the podcast or you'd like to come and have a chat with us, drop us an email at podcast at bread and butterthing.org.

SPEAKER_00:

We're always open to new members at all of our hubs, so if you or someone you know would benefit from our affordable food scheme, you can find your nearest hub on the Become a Member page of the website.

SPEAKER_02:

And please do all those things that podcast asks you to do. Like us, subscribe to us, leave us a review or share us with your mates, so we'll chat about us on social.

SPEAKER_00:

See you next time. See you.

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Mark Game

Host
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Vic Harper

Host