A Slice of Bread and Butter
The voice of The Bread and Butter Thing - with stories from the frontline of the cost of living crisis from one of the UK's leading food charities.
A Slice of Bread and Butter
Financially Stuck: The Hidden Struggle of Working Families
What happens when a healthcare professional with a Master's degree finds herself struggling to put food on the table? Emma Vinton's story challenges our assumptions about who needs community food support in today's economy.
Emma, a dedicated nurse who pivoted to medical writing after 20 years in healthcare, never expected to need help with food shopping. But when her housing costs doubled after separating from her partner, she discovered what many working professionals are experiencing—that wages simply aren't keeping pace with the skyrocketing cost of living.
Our conversation with Emma reveals the razor-thin margins many families operate on, where one life change can disrupt carefully balanced finances. She speaks candidly about accessing our food club (not a food bank—an important distinction we discuss) and the relief it provided when bills consumed nearly all her income.
Perhaps most striking is Emma's description of feeling "financially stuck"—a powerful phrase that captures the emotional weight of working hard yet being unable to move forward or even dream about small luxuries. This stuckness represents not just material hardship but the psychological toll of constant financial stress.
Beyond Emma's personal story, we explore broader issues affecting millions: the dangerous cycle of credit card debt, the inadequacy of savings (with ONS data showing only 10% of people have emergency funds), and whether solutions like universal basic income could create meaningful change.
As food inflation continues rising while corporate profits grow, we're left questioning what's next for working families caught in this squeeze. Join us for this thought-provoking conversation that challenges stigma and highlights the hidden struggles of today's working professionals.
What community support systems have helped you through financial challenges? We'd love to hear your experiences.
Welcome back to a slice of bread and butter with Dick and Mark from the bread and butter thing. We're a charity that delivers affordable food to the heart of struggling neighborhoods to help nourish communities and act as a catalyst for change.
Speaker 2:We provide access to nutritious, affordable range of food, which means that our members can save money on their shopping, feed their families healthily, as well as access other support too, right in the heart of their communities.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and this is where we share a slice of life of somebody in Bread and Butter and hear about how they connect with us, and this week it's Emma.
Speaker 3:Yeah, let's have a listen to Emma my name's Emma Vinton and I'm a 46 year old nurse and medical writer from Newcastle upon Tyne. I live in Walsend with my three children. I've got two 17 year olds twins, and they're studying A-levels at the moment, and then I've also got a very rambunctious six year old who's at school at the moment. So it's all going on over here.
Speaker 1:It sounds it. What do you mean by medical writer?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I started off as a nurse. I did that for 20 years. I did a master's in public health in 2016 and then I was a bit of a loss as to what to do. This was pre-Covid, so a lot of the public health jobs I think there'd been a lot of cutbacks. So I just sat one night and I thought you know what am I going to do? I wanted to change because I had the twins at that point. You know I'm fed up with the long shifts and little reward. So I looked up different roles that you could do with that qualification and this medical writing came up and I thought oh then you know that sounds interesting. So now I write courses for different businesses so it could be training companies or mental you know, mental health professionals themselves who want to learn more about a particular condition or treatment. So I've been doing that since 2021, self-employed, and I love it. Wouldn't go back.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. The obvious question for me then, Emma, is does it pay the rent?
Speaker 3:Well, this is the issue, yes and no. What happened last year? Myself and my partner separated and the mortgage had gone up.
Speaker 1:It literally doubled, so you're one of those that got caught in the interest craziness last year.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You come to the end of one of those fixed mortgage rates or whatever, and then suddenly you're faced with a problem.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so we'd moved into a house during COVID and then I think Edward was about was he about one or two, I can't remember how old he was exactly but moved in, you know, got quite a high mortgage and then during during covid, everything just went haywire. So you know, costs went up. You know I was a at the time. I was a key worker in a mental health trust, so I was still going to work and my mum was as well. She was working in a hospital nursery. So for a lot of families life just kind of continued, you know, but the streets were really yeah, it's great.
Speaker 3:I loved it because we were out every day as well, but yeah, it's strange, isn't it, when you know everyone's really quiet, but you're, you're out there, so so, yeah, so, so I did that and then, um, we just realized that costs were going up and up and up but wages were stagnating.
Speaker 3:So, um, it got to the point where we're just paying bills and kind of existing. Really, that was when I found out about the bread and butter thing. It helped me plug a gap and my partner because the mortgage went up, he was, he was paying the mortgage and sort of a lot of household bills, and then I was paying a lot of stuff out for the kids and having two teenagers who all want the you know the latest greatest stuff, and then a young want the you know the latest, greatest stuff, and then a young, a young child, you know, everyone needs uniform, and the costs were just going up. So I didn't think in my position, I would ever need it. But there's no shame, you know, I think I think one of the reasons I wanted to do this podcast was to show that there isn't any shame in using food banks, I think, while we're in this situation financially, and I think a lot of people are struggling, you know, with the cost of living. I would say you know, use them if you need them.
Speaker 1:You know there's no harm in it I couldn't agree more, although I would say food club to your food bank, because food banks typically don't you don't pay yeah, yeah so this is supposed to be more of a community-based way of accessing affordable, nutritious food. Help you stretch your budget, so it's yeah people in crisis, should we say, should be using food banks, whereas anybody that's feeling the pinch can use a food club I know, I think, because before you you just said that I didn't really think of the distinction.
Speaker 3:I just thought they were one and the same, but obviously that's not the case do you know?
Speaker 1:it's really interesting because I I've just come off a call with a researcher who was saying how do we actually educate and who do we need to educate about what food clubs are versus food banks? And you're a case in point. You're an actual member using one, but you still call it a food bank.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I know, and I think as well, if people realize there is a bit of a difference. You know it's not where you have to be in crisis to access one. I mean, I was, you know we were at a pretty low point in terms of finances, but, you know, work went on, life went on, and I think people think you have to get to that crisis point before you access any help. And I think it's because I think as a society especially, you know, working in mental health in the past you get used to having to wait until you're in crisis before you access help.
Speaker 1:It's the philosophy of the NHS, and everything isn't it. It's like everything's hospital focused and everybody's looking further upstream and saying it should be public health and GP focused and very preventative. With us, let's just say, Emma, that there wasn't a food club and you end up in crisis. It's a lot more expensive to help you when you're in crisis than it is just to put a couple of sticking plasters or a bridge on just while you're feeling those sticky moments one week or another and I think that's the key.
Speaker 3:I think, you know this podcast will certainly help as well to to let people know that there is a club there. You know they can access it if they need it. You know it's not. You know they don't have to be on. You know certain income or certain benefits. You know you can just go along struggling. Yeah, exactly, my mum bless her. She's just retired and she was working a couple of days a week in in the hospital nursery and she said she felt as if she had more money when she retired than she ever did as a as an employee. So when I accessed the the food club, you know I shared it with my mum, you know, and she was over the moon. She was like, oh, let's see what's in the bag. And you know, it was like a bit of a treat, you know, yeah you know, and oh, let's see what's in the bag.
Speaker 3:So there was a little bit of that going on.
Speaker 1:You're doing exactly the right things for us. We always say that Share the love right.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:If you don't want it or you have too much, just share it, don't waste it. So what do you do, emma, typically when you're in a really sticky situation?
Speaker 3:I've accessed it. Really when it's come to the end of the month and say my wage. You know, being self-employed, I don't always get paid on the same day every month. So I was in that position where you know you get the beginning and then you know those bills due out. But was in that position where you know you get the beginning and then you know there was bills due out, but then once the bills were paid there was very little left for food.
Speaker 1:It just helped the tide things over, basically and I guess if you didn't do that, then you're thinking about putting it on the credit card in the past I did do that and then you just end up in more debt because then it feeds the problem. You know you end up going around in circles it just feels too easy it is, it is what I mean by that is not that managing the debt is easy, but getting that loan or getting that credit card just seems really really just too easy.
Speaker 3:I've been in that position as well, where I've been struggling. I thought I'll just get a little bit more credit and then, before you know where you are, half of your income is paying off debt. You know, and I think that as well feeds into the need to use food clubs, because you, you know, everything you get basically goes out again at the end of the month and then you've got nothing left. You know, and then you do.
Speaker 1:You know, you do a finance plan, and then it just all spirals, and then you need another little bit of credit.
Speaker 3:I know. And then you think, oh, I'll just get that and I'll just get that. And before you know where you are, then you think, oh, I'll just get that and I'll just get that. And before you know where you are, you're in a real predicament. We haven't all got the bank of mum and dad to rely on, you know, I think, especially in the northeast. I was reading somewhere that only is it 50 percent of people have a savings account.
Speaker 1:I think the office for national statistics came out and said it's one in ten one in ten.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so ten percent. So that is. You know, when you think of, you know they'll say keep six grand in your bank for a rainy day. You know, not many people I know do that.
Speaker 1:It's very rare, very, very rare one of the things that we're looking at at the moment, emma, is the government are trying to do what they're calling a food strategy for 2025, and it's supposed to look at nutrition. It's supposed to look at nutrition. It's supposed to look at fair pay for farmers. What do you think they should look at?
Speaker 3:I think it's about giving people a decent basic income. So I know there's been a lot of campaigning going on in Newcastle for the living wage yeah, a real living wage. I think it is about £2 above living wage per hour. There's been a lot of discussion around a universal basic income. I think it was trialed in jarrow wow, that's interesting because that's super expensive.
Speaker 1:Universal basic income we covered it in previous podcasts and it was just like 500 quid a month for everybody was like four times more expensive than the current welfare budget oh wow, massive, oh, my goodness.
Speaker 3:well, I don't think they're going to implement that then. Well, that's the problem, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Because they're great ideas, they are great ideas, but I just wish we'd all kind of accept that somebody's got to pay for it as well. I'd be ready to pay and I would vote for somebody that was brave enough to say you're going to have to pay for it. They're not going to get in, are they?
Speaker 3:and I think that's the problem, isn't it?
Speaker 3:You know we're so stretched at the moment. The thing that really frustrates me is that they seem to always target disability. You know disability benefits and paper, and you know, when I worked in mental health, so many people were, you know it would, it would cause significant um deterioration in people's mental health when they, when they had to have a pip review because they just couldn't cope, you know the anxiety was so high. And then you know you've got all the daily struggles on top of that, and then you know that they'd be given a letter saying you know, I'm going to get this benefit, you know, for 10 years, and then one year in, oh no, we're going to review that. And then you know you just, you just get them to a point where they were, they're coping and feeling okay, and then this would just come crashing down at them and then they'd be back to square one again and you know they'd be in and out of crisis. You know they'd be the crisis team at the weekends and it just seems to always spiral you're right.
Speaker 1:I mean in the way the personal independent payments are reviewed. We actually did a podcast that week that they announced it with somebody that was disabled and they were saying the same things as you just said the anxiety that was with it, but not only the anxiety. They were very practical with it and said I think we're probably going to end up homeless if this truly happens and they shouldn't have to face that because this is politics messaging out and doing that standard westminster thing of we need to just push this message out and then claw back and it'll never be as bad as it sounds, but then everyone can breathe a sigh of relief.
Speaker 3:Well, everybody doesn't breathe a sigh of relief and and the stress and the anxiety that you've created by doing it that way doesn't work they do these things to try and solve a problem, but then it ends up being where the problems just compound each other and get worse.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you, Kerbal, why are so many people that are in working families so worse off than it feels like they probably were in the 80s and 90s.
Speaker 3:Part of it because for me, when I was looking at renting a property, you were looking at two, you know, fifteen hundred two thousand pound a month and I thought that's, that's outrageous. You know, for Newcastle, you know where prices are meant to be great.
Speaker 1:When was it you felt comfortable to be able to have those coffees or treat your kids, etc. Without having to think twice about it?
Speaker 3:I think when things were stabler was when I was nursing I I mean it wasn't perfect by any means I would say probably 2017 when I felt like I was getting my wage, I was working three days a week, getting my income. Everything was really steady. I knew what was going in, what was coming out, but yeah. So I think, yeah, probably seven years ago, and I always thought I'd be better off as a business owner. But I think the costs that I've kind of incurred have kind of gone up and down, up and down, but then, as the cost of living has gone up, I'm now in that quandary where I need to earn a bit more to get myself out of that quandary again. I think, because I'm quite positive and I'm quite determined, I'll find a way. The word that comes to mind when I think of Britain now is stuck. You know I feel quite stuck in my, stuck in my job.
Speaker 3:You know I love my job, I love what I do financially stuck yeah, financially stuck and I think, unless you've got a, you know, a great financial advisor behind you, a lot of people are stuck because they think, well, I have to pay these bills and there's no wiggle room. That's the key. There's no wiggle room for anybody. People are just living, working, eating or not eating, and it's.
Speaker 1:It was a mess lots to unpack, some fun facts, some other stuff, that. But changing career, moving away from frontline nursing to technical nursing would you call it medical writing sounds like a niche role to me. Yeah, it does, it does. But it's interesting how I'm going on a contractor rant, because this is what happens a lot when organizations recognize that they have a need for something but it's not a full time need, they contract people. So lots of complicated engineers over the years have turned into contractors, moved away from I don't know, british nuclear fuels and people like that as a cost cutting exercise. And then the government starts to punish them for being self-employed contractors and all the rest of it. And I find it really difficult conversation to navigate. Because she's contracting for the nhs. Yeah, the government have cut this cost out and made it difficult for people like emma to do this role.
Speaker 2:I really struggle when it, particularly when it's government public sector type stuff where people do end up contracting back in how I mean from a council perspective. So it may not apply to the NHS, but I think there's some read across talking about that. The default over the last however many governments has been one of outsourcing, and actually in many occasions the council could possibly do it better themselves if it was in-house. And she is looking to flip the relationship from a default outsource to a have the business argument to have it in-house. So I think she agrees Well, great.
Speaker 1:That's one thing Tick, move on. I think it's just that difficulty. If it's 75% of a job, they've still got to look at what the rest of that role looks like, right.
Speaker 2:But in an organisation of that size size let's think about the nhs how many unique jobs do they have where there's only one person doing it?
Speaker 1:yeah, you know that's a bread and butter problem, that that's not an nhs problem yeah, yeah, we're teeny tiny and have that problem, whereas the nhs should really not have that problem I think that there's a team of contractors that would do the training materials and things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's their choice to have it out or in would be my view.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But you know, this isn't making life better for Emma. This is just us ranting on her behalf.
Speaker 1:So yeah, agreed.
Speaker 2:You two put the world to rights. You covered everything. That's what we do here, isn't it Correct?
Speaker 1:I mean we do here, isn't it correct? I mean, we do it daily, but we we ticked a lot of topics that we've talked about before. Mortgage rates again. Just like david, she's been stung by coming out of a fixed term mortgage and suddenly bash shock horror, and a real shock horror, of the interest rates kicking in yeah, we were talking about mortgage rates in the office the other day.
Speaker 2:Well, mortgages like this is how old school I am. When I got my first mortgage it was 25 years and that was the max. Now it's 40 year mortgage 40 year.
Speaker 1:Okay, you triggered me, so is it interest only? I think it is yeah, and I guess that's the only way they can afford it right, keep the repayments down. Yep, wow, yeah, okay, well, I'm going to move you on to the next topic.
Speaker 2:So, food banks, food clubs, I know we have to do more work in this area I was talking to megan about that yesterday.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so megan's got an interesting piece of research coming out soon. Megan blake for those of you listening from Sheffield University, she too is how do we get this across? How do we make it as known as a food bank?
Speaker 2:It's a huge piece of work for us to do and I think, intrinsically, many of our members know it's not a food bank, because it feels different, you know and Emma touched on a few of those bits too but food bank is just such a common common. It's like a flippant phrase, it's like it's an easy thing to say, isn't it? And we just get clumped in with that. So if anyone is worried about a food bank, then would they be put off by coming to a food club?
Speaker 1:yeah, tied with the same brush. And it's in the general public, I feel. Isn't it because government is starting to hear it? I think they understand what a food club is, or some of them are starting to learn that. Even the food industry are starting to learn. But I do think it's in that general public space where we need to do the work.
Speaker 2:So here's an interesting thought. I think me and you could, because we live and breathe food clubs. So I think this would be easy for us. But if we sent random people into 10 food banks and 10 food clubs run by different people in all different parts of the world, would they always be able to tell the difference?
Speaker 1:do you mean whether they would be able to tell whether it's a food club or food bank?
Speaker 2:yeah, if we didn't tell them yeah which one it was yeah and we said right there you go, walk into that which one no, I think it's tricky.
Speaker 2:Being able to actually see choice and being able to see payment would matter yeah, and I think the point that I'm trying to get at is we know to look for those things, so we know that having a brew, yeah, a sense of community, the community doing it for themselves, people paying all of that, when I was talking to megan yesterday she was talking about the research that she's done recently and the yuka poll and she was saying people that had used the food club didn't actually know that it was a food club.
Speaker 1:So first question was do you know what a food club is? No, and then she went on to describe in the survey what a food club was and then asked the question have you ever used a food club? And quite a lot of them came back saying yes yeah even food club users don't like emma don't know that they're using food clubs, not food banks yeah you want to talk about universal basic income.
Speaker 1:I do so. I did have a google on this one after Emma said that Jarrow were doing this soBI trial in I think it was East Finchley in Jarrow. Okay, 30 people in total, so not a huge.
Speaker 2:Tiny.
Speaker 1:Tiny, but they were giving each one of them 1600 quid a month for two years. Wow, that's a lot of change. That's over a million quid, and 20% of them, I think, were going to have some form of disability.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:But I can't find anything since the launch whether it actually happened and whether it's actually coming to the end of its two years, because it'd be right now, wouldn't it? So, I don't know. So we'll have to do some more digging on it.
Speaker 2:We'll have to do some more digging on it, but it is fascinating because when you start to look into it, there are a lot of little universal basic income pilots going on all over the place. Yeah, okay, so my explainer on universal basic income would be that everybody, regardless of any kind of eligibility or means testing, gets essentially a benefit from the government to support them to live better. And the argument would be that, while it might cost more in terms of the benefit cost itself, it's much easier to administrate because you're not trying to work out are they eligible or not. People don't have to fill in the long, complicated forms. So big tick from our point of view. And actually you would save on things like the healthy start voucher scheme or the low income scheme or whatever else people are accessing, because you do away with the need for all of those. So it's kind of a real simplified welfare system. Was that okay?
Speaker 1:cool works for me cool.
Speaker 2:I was chatting to david, a civil servant in dwp, who's a really good guy actually, and I feel a bit sorry for him because he like leads on poverty and anything to do with poverty gets put on his desk, which feels like he's pretty busy right now and he really wants to make a difference. And, um, yeah, he also came to our Westminster event, which was great, and had a chat with some of our members. That was really lovely to see members chatting directly to people in government.
Speaker 1:That can influence things especially in the DWP right especially in the DWP.
Speaker 2:yeah, so he was chatting to James and he wasn't really thinking that UBI was on this government's agenda and I think you alluded to that with Emma that it's like, wow, that would be a big change, super expensive.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, it's looking at the price. I'm smiling now I'm just pausing because I don't know if you can hear it, but the dog is actually snoring behind me.
Speaker 2:Can't hear. I'm glad. Yeah, do you know what struck me about emma? And it was towards the end of her chatting to you, when she was saying that she was financially stuck. Yeah, I think people underestimate how that feels that there are many people, many of our members, that almost can't dream because they're so financially stuck. Yeah, from all of you putting the world to rights, that was the bit that I was like oh, that's really landed with me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm stuck.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's kind of a helpless word, isn't it?
Speaker 1:It's sad as well, isn't it? Because it's something that resonates through and through so many of our members, because, actually, if you can't afford stuff, you are stuck.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think it was the way Emma said it. It just made me feel like, well, what's the hopes for the future? Because you're stuck, that financial bit is holding you back, holding you back from dreaming about the whatever. And you know we've seen that with many of our members that can't dream about the holiday or can't dream about even the takeaway at the end of the week. Yeah, and I think that there's an emotional heaviness to that that I think policy just doesn't recognise.
Speaker 1:Couldn't agree more, and it's something that we've talked about again. You know what's changed. Why is life so difficult? And it was something that we looked at the other day previous podcasts and it's that thing of wages simply haven't kept up. Wages have plateaued, whereas inflation certainly hasn't.
Speaker 2:No, and I was thinking about food inflation the other day, because obviously it's just gone up again and they're predicting it will go up again. Maybe this is a bit controversial for us to say, given that we have such amazing partnerships with suppliers, with retailers, but their profits are still going up. So, even though inflation's going up, profits are still going up. Even though inflation's going up, profits are still going up. That's no secret, that's in the public domain. But people are struggling even more and it's like what gives in this at some point wow, now.
Speaker 1:Now who's getting on the soapbox?
Speaker 2:do you not think?
Speaker 1:I do. It's a really interesting one, but this, this is what people like anna taylor would tell you all along from the food foundation. She'd say that the corporates are there to serve the shareholders.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Which is why a lot of the ultra processed food, the cheap calories, et cetera, are all in there, because they still make great profit on them. Yeah, which is why you need the balance with the government intervention.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you guys touched on the DEFRA food strategy and making sure that healthy food was affordable and accessible. So that's our ask.
Speaker 1:It's a difficult ask, but it is. I will keep mentioning it and mentioning it, Vic, but your Eat Well voucher is the solution.
Speaker 2:Great Will I get some royalties if government ever do it.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Okay, glad we cleared that one up. So if you'd like to know more about the bread and butter thing and what we get up to, you can find us at team TBBT on Instagram, twitter, tiktok, linkedin or online at breadandbutterthingorg.
Speaker 1:And if you have any feedback or thoughts on the podcast or you want to come and have an answer and be a guest, drop us an email at podcast at breadandbutterthingorg.
Speaker 2:Lastly, we're always open to new members at all of our hubs, so if you or someone you know would benefit from a food club, not a food bank, you can find your nearest hub on the Become a Member page of the website.
Speaker 1:Please do all those things that podcasts ask you to do Like us, subscribe, leave us a review and share us with your mates and chat about us on social. You know you want to.
Speaker 2:See you next time.
Speaker 1:See you next time, thank you.
