A Slice of Bread and Butter
The voice of The Bread and Butter Thing - with stories from the frontline of the cost of living crisis from one of the UK's leading food charities.
A Slice of Bread and Butter
PARTNER SPECIAL: The science secrets behind the humble banana with Fyffes
Ever wondered why a banana curves? Or how long it takes for a pineapple to mature before its voyage to the UK? Join Mark and Justin as they get geeky about tropical fruit with Sophie and Shania from Fyffes. Enjoy a glimpse behind the scenes of Europe's largest banana importer with a few weird and wonderful science secrets revealed along the way. The 7000km journey the banana goes on to reach your fruit bowl is far more fascinating than most of us realise! Have a listen and stock up on some fruity facts.
Welcome back to a slice of bread and butter, this time with Justin and Mark from the bread and butter thing. We're a charity that delivers affordable food to the heart of deprived neighbourhoods to help nourish communities and act as a catalyst for change.
Speaker 2:We provide access to nutritious, affordable range of food, which means our members can save money on their shopping, feed their families healthily, as well as access other support to right in the heart of their communities.
Speaker 1:And this is where we share a slice of life with somebody involved in bread and butter and hear about why they connect with us. And this week's a bit different Justin's from our food team. He helps us well. He's pivotal in finding food, basically, so he helps find organisations who work with us to provide us food, and we thought we'd have a chat with Sophie and Shania from FIFES, so let's have a listen.
Speaker 3:I'm Sophie Audish-Lawson. I'm Assistant Operations Manager at Fife's in Coventry.
Speaker 4:My name's Shania Kimberley. I'm Produce Manager at Coventry.
Speaker 1:Both of you at Fife's. Thank you so much for everything that you've done for us, historically and ongoing. We have a great relationship. That means that we get a routine supply of surplus bananas out of you guys. But before we get into the details, do you want to give us a brief history of who Fives are?
Speaker 3:Yeah, fives was founded in 1888 and is one of the largest tropical produce importers and distributors of bananas, pineapples and melons. Today, fives is the largest importer of bananas in Europe and the number one importer of offshore melons in North America. In the UK, fives has five depots Coventry, where we're talking from today, livingston, normanton Bays and Stoke and Bristol. And then we have a depot in Ireland, bellbrighan.
Speaker 1:Wow, so you guys move a lot of bananas.
Speaker 3:We do, and pineapples.
Speaker 1:And pineapples and melons. Obviously Tell me some interesting facts about pineapples and bananas.
Speaker 4:So with pineapples. They take 13 months to grow. All of our pineapples come from Costa Rica. When the pineapple plant is ready to produce the actual fruit, it sends up a flower stalk from the central point within the pineapple flower. It turns purple and pink in colour. Over a few months that stalk grows taller and turns green in colour, and once they're ready to harvest, they're taken from the fields.
Speaker 3:And you can harvest two pineapples off that plant and the pineapple plant will produce a shooter. That shooter will be harvested and then that will be the next generation of crop. So it's a clone of the mother plant and it has the same DNA.
Speaker 4:That fruit is then packed into the containers and it is sent overseas to Southampton, which takes two weeks to come over to the UK. Once that happens and it's all unloaded from the vessels, they're transported up the country to Coventry where we mostly distribute. Fun fact about pineapple when it is harvested, when it's green in colour, it's ready to eat. And we measure the pineapple sweetness off of Brix levels. So Brix levels, the higher the Brix. So a score of, say, 17 or 18 would mean it's sweeter, and if it's lower it'd be less sweet.
Speaker 1:Are they more sweet when they're green or when they're yellow?
Speaker 3:There's no difference's no difference, no difference, no there's no difference in the internal of the fruit to the skin color that's fascinating.
Speaker 1:So two weeks on a boat, how long does a pineapple stay fresh then?
Speaker 4:we would say with our customers. Mostly we have the freshness of up to say, 35 days post packing date in the tropics we keep them in a controlled environment in Coventry at seven degrees.
Speaker 1:And Sophie, you're doing bananas.
Speaker 3:Bananas take nine months to grow and the banana plant takes six months to grow, and then they give us the flower, which is the fruit, and it takes three months for the fruit to mature and then it'll be ready for harvest. We plan to plant and not seed, so the first plant is generation zero. This is the mother plant, and this produces the first bunch of bananas. And then a shooter comes out of the mother plant. The shooter is then known as the mother, and the plant that has been harvested is the grandmother. On average, you can get one and a half bunches of bananas per year from each plant, and there is always a unit of three on an established plant. So you have the grandmother, the mother and a young shooter.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's not complicated at all. Do we ever see in this country how green they are when they're first picked? Because they're never yellow. When you pick them right, they're always green.
Speaker 3:No, they're stone green and that's how they arrive into the UK. We then house them in one of our ripening rooms and we equalise them for 24 hours, which is where we set a temperature to allow us for even ripening. We then gas fruit with ethylene for 24 hours and then the fruit absorbs that and that's a natural product and it's a natural process. And then we control the rooms by temperature to allow us to get that yellow color that we see in the shop. And this ripening process takes six to seven days. So there's a lot of say shop and this ripening process takes six to seven days.
Speaker 1:So there's a lot of science behind that ripening process.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we do have multiple customers who have different colour specifications. Say, with some of our customers they have ripening at home bananas which are a lot more greener. With that the fruit would have a less of a ripening process than, say, fruit that needs to be colour four say, which is more yellow. So the higher the number, the higher the colour.
Speaker 1:What colour does it become a problem to you? Because you've not got it out of dispatch.
Speaker 4:Probably colour five. Yeah, colour five. I'd agree with you there.
Speaker 1:So that's full yellow. Tell me about why they become surplus.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so if the weather does drop below 10 degrees it tends to slow down the sales. People don't tend to buy as much bananas, is that right? Below 10 degrees banana sales drop off yeah, because it's colder, people tend not to want to eat bananas as much you know that's fascinating.
Speaker 1:I would have thought that would be the case for salads, but not bananas yeah, yeah even putting a banana on a porridge. You know an all year round fruit. Had a thought. You thought You've really surprised me there.
Speaker 4:It goes either way as well. So when it's in the summertime, when it's like 22 or 23 above sales, do slow down again as people go more towards the water-based fruits such as melons, pineapples, berries as well.
Speaker 3:And also the weather patterns in the tropics. Obviously, we need to accept a certain quota of fruit during the whole of the year, so, depending on the weather, whether we have an abundance or whether we're having a shortage, and we need to then manage our production and manage this jigsaw puzzle in terms of bringing all the fruit to us or managing it across multiple accounts and countries that Fives operate in.
Speaker 4:It's that all-round thing of everybody says seasonally and locally and all the rest of it, but actually seasonally, I guess, is growing as a problem as weather gets weirder right yeah, so when we have fruit that we can't be sending to our customers as it's out of specification but it's still good to eat, to say, past that colour four, colour, five level, we do donate our fruit to charity. Last year we we helped 13,102 households with bread and butter between January and December and it's really good because obviously with this helping people in need you know bananas are always in these. It's good nutrient. So to be able to supply that where we can is really good, really good to hear that we can help we love it too.
Speaker 1:It's a win-win. What's not to like about bananas and pineapples and melons or whatever we get out of you guys, because everything that you do is so nutritious, it's definitely a a real plus. We do geek out a lot at bread and butter, about food waste and stuff. Are there any weird and wonderful innovations for banana skins or waste bananas or anything like that?
Speaker 3:so the small amount of waste that we do have is turned into energy at an aerobic digestion plant and also fertilizer, which is put back onto local farms a weird and wonderful fact.
Speaker 1:I will tell you about why the banana isn't straight and why it curves I feel like we're going to get into European legislation if we're not careful here. Go ahead.
Speaker 3:Here we are. The pregnant plant produces the bunch internally and if you cut the plant down the middle, you can actually see the bunch starting to form. So as it grows it moves up the plant and it's then pushed out of the top and drops and the bunch is facing the earth. Fingers then start to move upwards. The misconception is that the fingers grow towards the sun, but it's to do with negative gravity and that's just the way that the bananas grow. The question is then, why some bananas more curve than the others? This is because the night temperatures are cooler than 22 degrees. The mother plant feels stress, so the bananas have a larger curve.
Speaker 1:So it's all dependent upon climatic conditions so if you kept the plantation at a constant 22 bananas would be straight well, less than 22, they don't like it.
Speaker 3:More than 22, they would be yeah oh, over 22, they don't like.
Speaker 1:Oh, that that's just weird. And now I I feel anthropomorphizing thinking about a pregnant banana plant with these baby bananas going up the shoot of the plant.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and just the hard work that goes into growing the crops and bringing them into the pack house, I mean, I have seen it. Yeah, yeah, it's a lot of work and a lot of dedication from the people that work on the farms, and then the whole process of, you know, importing them.
Speaker 1:Then I wouldn't say complicated, but intricate.
Speaker 3:Definitely intricate yeah. I'd say complicated as well. I mean we do over 75 different SKUs for banana, if you can believe that.
Speaker 1:Okay, forgive the insult, but a banana's a banana, right.
Speaker 4:Well, you'd like to think, I'd like to think, but we do. It's a lot more complicated than what you would think To get the banana to the right specification that a customer wants. It's a lot of work on the correct day yeah, the correct day. From what you see on the shelves is very different to what we see here at the depot. We see color three, mostly sophia don't know if you'd agree for most customers. Three to four. Yeah, a bit more greener than what what we do see when you go and buy your shopping.
Speaker 1:So I feel like I'm gonna have to put out a complementary color chart with this podcast.
Speaker 4:So that everybody can see what you're talking about yeah I was gonna go to your question about innovations with banana skins. Like sophie said, it can be a natural fertilizer, but also you can polish silverware by blending the peel into a paste and then, if you apply it to your silver items, apparently when you wipe it off after a few minutes, it's nice and shiny. Got any silver laying around and you can reuse your banana I did a similar thing of googling fun facts.
Speaker 1:The victorians used to use pineapples as deodorant well, I didn't know that they used to rub pineapples under their arms as deodorant, which was weird, and they used to rent them as well. They used to rent pineapples under their arms as deodorant, which was weird, and they used to rent them as well.
Speaker 3:They used to rent pineapples because they were table pieces, weren't they?
Speaker 4:And they were a signal of opulence, weren't they? Yeah, they were seen as a luxury. It was a long time, really, until they became mass produced and brought over here. In regards to the banana side, I think it wasn't until 1901 where the ships were fitted with cooling equipment to ship large quantities into the UK and Ireland.
Speaker 1:The Paris was operating in 1888, so that's over 10 years before it was on a mass scale. Well, I'm going to wrap it up and say thank you for supporting and thank you for taking the time to actually come on the podcast.
Speaker 4:Thank you very much. Thank you very much for having us. It's been good working with you and continue working with you.
Speaker 1:So tell me why we need organisations like Fives to help us.
Speaker 2:Every day when you think about food coming into the country. Or you go to your supermarket and you see bananas there, for example, or you go to your supermarket and you see bananas there, for example. It's not just as simple as you've probably heard from Sophie and Shania there about the process and the way the product comes into the country, the way it's ripened and within that, you're obviously dealing with millions and millions of bananas every day. And this could be ready meals or it could be salads and lettuces, and these things are imported or produced and packed in bulk and because of this, you're going to get some wastage waste, I guess, in the industry is a bit of a dirty word and it's something that we're trying to remove and change because at the end of the day, it's edible surplus, which is great for communities that are struggling and great for us to get out to our members.
Speaker 1:So food is food right. Waste is a destination for food. If you put food in a bin, it's waste.
Speaker 2:But actually if you put food in a bin and call the destination waste, because in that bin it's still food, it's totally food, I mean, unless it's at a point where you cannot eat it anymore, it's perfectly safe and healthy to eat. And there are just millions and millions of tonnes. And unlock that and persuade them that it's ethical, it's sustainable, it will obviously save them money in redirecting that product to us and obviously it has a long-lasting impact on people's diets and health.
Speaker 1:There's so much food that is surplus and going to waste. That could be eaten and I think during National Waste Week we understood could be eaten. And I think during National Waste Week we understood that if we didn't waste the food that we waste, we could actually feed another 50% of the population.
Speaker 2:Which is an unbelievable figure, isn't it? And when you look at some of the issues that our members face and what we hear from them firsthand on a day-to-day basis face, and what we hear from them firsthand on a day-to-day basis, to have the access to 50% more food, it would be a game changer for people. There are just so many people who aren't eating healthily. We know the effect on the NHS and and wellness.
Speaker 1:So many, so many. Okay, so pitch over. Sorry folks, but we're always looking for people to work with us, and five so great at doing that. The color chart have you seen the color chart? The color chart is fantastic.
Speaker 2:It's like a tea chart. Have you seen that? The brew I mean, obviously we know the brew chart and we both know it well. We like a good builder's cup of tea, don't we? Absolutely? And the banana chart is is the same, but it's amazing to see I think there's seven different colors, if I'm right, you are. I'm looking at it now from the the very green to almost the sort of very yellow and sort of starting to spot in brown is. Is that?
Speaker 1:right, get you yellow flecked with brown per the fives color chart. Yeah, I like it.
Speaker 2:You've obviously done your homework I'm a fan of the uh, the banana chart actually, and, and on that note, what? What's your favourite colour, mark? What would you go for as a banana?
Speaker 1:Do you know what I actually like? The yellow flecked with brown. I think they're super soft and tasty at that point.
Speaker 2:You see, I'm one of the sort of I go green. I like the sort of harder, sort of less ripe.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, with the grainy texture For some reason. Look, it's just the way I like a banana, so what about your?
Speaker 1:pineapples, then Pineapples. Well, because, per Sophie, it doesn't matter whether you have it green or yellow or orange, it's still exactly the same sweetness.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which is really weird, isn't it? Yeah, you'd think that it would be different. I still like quite a firm fruit, so actually I'd prefer a less ripe pineapple.
Speaker 1:I'm trying not to get all snarky and do Blanche André now, but it's not working. Okay, I'm going to move on. Give me some fun facts about bananas.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I've learned some things about bananas. I did go round to my brother-in-law's about a year ago, having been to Fife's, and got really excited, and they just listened to me and then laughed out loud for about five minutes on the basis that I was properly geeking out. So one of the things I didn't know before was that, botanically, bananas are technically a berry. Apparently, this is because they develop from a single flower with a single ovary, making it a true berry, which I had no idea about.
Speaker 1:You've gone geeky so fast. I don't know what else. You would describe it as a banana, because I wouldn't know what family it came from. So I'm kind of not surprised.
Speaker 2:I certainly didn't think it was going to be a berry, though I guess the reason I got so geeky here is that, you know, having been down to see Shania and Sophie at Fife's, it was a proper eye-opener. I mean, obviously we all pick up our bananas, probably don't think about what colour it is. You just pick those ones, they look all right to me, off you go. But you know, on average they travel for 7,000 kilometres to get to us and they take two weeks generally to ship across, and then the ripening process is so complicated to ship across and then the ripening process is so complicated. Apparently.
Speaker 1:13.9 degrees centigrade is the optimum ripening temperature 7 000 kilometers did you say I did so that means for me another compelling reason why they should never go in the bin, even if you've got a fruit bowl with a rotting banana in it. That banana has traveled 7 000 kilometers, so for god's sake, eat it.
Speaker 2:And it tastes great, ripe or not. I've got another geeky fact for you. Sorry, here we go. There's more and there's more. Bananas are radioactive. Bananas contain isotope, potassium 40. It's obviously minuscule amounts of radioactivity and apparently you would need to eat tons and tons and tons of them to have any effect. I have no words.
Speaker 1:Enough geekiness, give me some silliness.
Speaker 2:Okay, right. So clusters of bananas are known as hands, not bunches. Not bunches hands. Yes, so clusters of bananas are hands and there are defects. And when I was at Fife's they had these posters on the wall of different quality effects and I couldn't understand why they were called them. Actually, I've got some brilliant ones which, for me, are like rock band names, so I'm going to put the explainer in.
Speaker 1:Justin has been a drummer since I think he was in Nappies, which is why he's probably looking at the rock band references now. Go ahead.
Speaker 2:Okay, yes, that's right, drummer. Indeed, my favourite rock band name as an injury or a defect for a banana is Mutilated Finger. Okay, we've got Malformed Cluster Finger, rot, fused Finger, blotch. They're just great names for a rock band. I wish I'd known about this. My band would definitely have been called Mutilated Finger at an earlier time. In fact, let's get a band together, mark.
Speaker 1:Let's not. Thank you to Sophie and Shania. It's brilliant that you work with us and others, obviously to keep those bananas going to waste as a minimum. Anybody else out there that is looking to find a home for surplus food, by all means drop us an email. Justin is justin at breadandbutterthingorg and he will happily give you a solution.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Please drop me a line. So if you'd like to know more about the bread and butter thing and what we get up to, you can find us at Team TBBT on Instagram and Twitter, or on LinkedIn or online at breadandbutterthingorg.
Speaker 1:And if you have any feedback or thoughts on the podcast, you can get in touch with us by email at podcast at breadandbutterthingorg and from me if you're in business with surplus food and want to work with us, please drop me an email at justin at breadandbutterthingorg. Lastly, we're always open to new members at all of our hubs, so if you or someone you know would benefit from our affordable food scheme, you can find your nearest hub on the Become a Member page of the website.
Speaker 2:And please do all those things that podcasts ask you to do, like subscribe, leave us a review, share us with your friends and chat about us on social and tell your mum and tell her to tell her friends, see you again soon.
Speaker 1:You can at least say bye.
